Posted on 11/01/2005 8:17:35 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
HARRISBURG — After Alan Bonsell finished his testimony Monday, in which he accused two local newspaper reporters of making up the information that drove the Dover Area School District into a First Amendment lawsuit, Judge John E. Jones III demanded to see a copy of Bonsell's previous sworn statements.
Steve Harvey, the plaintiffs' attorney who had cross-examined the Dover Area school board member, offered to provide a clean copy later in chambers.
"I want it now if you have it," the federal judge said. At the end of the first day of the sixth week of Dover's court battle over intelligent design in U.S. Middle District Court, Jones had some questions.
Bonsell sat quietly on the stand chewing gum and swiveling in his chair as Jones reviewed the man's Jan. 3 deposition in which he denied knowing anyone, besides his father, who had been involved in donating copies of the textbook "Of Pandas and People" to the Dover school district.
After he finished reading, Jones asked Bonsell when he became aware that his father, Donald, was in possession of an $850 check used to purchase copies of the pro-intelligent design textbook.
Bonsell said he had given the check to his father.
Last week, former board member Bill Buckingham testified he handed the check, dated Oct. 4, 2004, to Alan Bonsell and asked him to forward it to Donald Bonsell. Written in the check's memo line were the words: "for Pandas and People books."
"You tell me why you didn't say Mr. Buckingham was involved," a visibly angry Jones said, staring at Bonsell as he read from his deposition.
Bonsell said he misspoke. And then, "That's my fault, your honor."
Bonsell said he didn't think it mattered because Buckingham had not actually donated any of his money. Rather, the money had been collected from members of his church.
But Jones pointed out that Bonsell had said he had never spoken to anybody else about the donations.
The judge also wanted to know why the money needed to be forwarded to his father, why Buckingham couldn't have purchased the books himself.
Bonsell stammered.
"I still haven't heard an answer from you," Jones said.
"He said he'd take it off the table," Bonsell said.
"You knew you were under oath?" Jones asked at one point.
Later, outside the courthouse, plaintiffs' attorneys had no comment on Jones' questioning, and Dover's attorney Patrick Gillen had little to say.
"I won't speculate" about the judge's actions, Gillen said. "I'm confident that he's seeking the truth in these proceedings."
Jones' exchange with Bonsell was the second time the judge has intervened in testimony and questioned school board members on his own. On Friday, Jones asked Heather Geesey about her newly acquired recollection that board members at June 2004 meetings were publicly discussing intelligent design, rather than creationism as reported in the media.
In her deposition, Geesey had been unable to recall details about board discussions during the meetings.
Much of Bonsell's testimony echoed Buckingham's from last week.
Buckingham testified about donations from his church. But like Bonsell, Buckingham said initially, in his first deposition on Jan. 3, that he didn't know from where the 60 donated copies came.
Before Bonsell was forced to defend his past recollections, he spent much of his time on the stand accusing the local press, in particular two reporters — Heidi Bernhard-Bubb, a freelance writer with The York Dispatch, and Joe Maldonado, a freelance writer with the York Daily Record/Sunday News — of incorrectly reporting that board members had said "creationism" at the June 2004 board meetings rather than "intelligent design."
Bonsell said the media continues to misrepresent the case and the concept of intelligent design — the idea that life's complexity demands a designer.
Harvey wanted to know why he keeps talking to reporters, since he doesn't feel they are correctly reporting the facts.
Bonsell said because he hoped "some of the truth would get out."
Before Bonsell's testimony Monday, former board member Jane Cleaver had also testified that board members had been talking about intelligent design at the June 2004 board meetings, but the local newspapers reported they were saying creationism.
However, under cross-examination, she said she was unsure if intelligent design had been brought up at meetings in June or later at the July board meeting.
Whether board members were talking about creationism then is important to Dover's First Amendment battle. Attorneys for the 11 parents suing the district over the mention of intelligent design in biology class say board members were motivated by religious beliefs, one of the prongs used by the courts to determine whether an action violates the constitutional guarantee of separation of church and state.
At the Jan. 3 depositions, board members Bonsell, Buckingham, Harkins and Supt. Nilsen all said they did not remember other board members talking about creationism at the June 2004 meetings.
Cleaver, like Bonsell, blamed the reporters, particularly Maldonado, for making up their stories.
"Joe doesn't know how to tell the truth," Cleaver said. "Joe only knows how tell a lie."
Last week, both Maldonado and Bernhard-Bubb testified to the accuracy of their articles. They said no board members ever requested a correction from articles about the meetings.
that's all it takes to win your allegiance? AGE???
sonny jim, you might claim not to care whether or not you impress us, but impress us you do. You might want to consider that.... IIRC the book you believe in instructs you that you must.
Why do you think the Bible approves of slavery?
I would NEVER allow my children to be taught by an atheist. It wouldn't happen.
that answers that. thanks for providing my daily "sum'pin noo"
How 'bout a Jew, or a Hindu, or a Buddhist, or a Muslim or a Sikh, or are you just a part-time religious bigot?
The Supreme Court has said that Creationism cannot be taught as science because it's religion, not science. The school board knew that, so they tried to get around the Constitutional prohibition by sneaking in "ID" instead. They got caught, lied about it, and got caught in the lies.
Come on, man. This isn't complicated stuff we're talking about. The fact that they had to lie about their motivation tells that they knew what they were doing was wrong.
And while we're on the subject of lying creationists, would you finally like to condemn their lying? Or is it okay because they lied to advance creationism?
Ah, so you avoid answering my question, by telling me that you personally would not allow an atheist to teach your child..very easy for you to control, as you have stated on other threads that you homeschooled(at least that is my recollection)..But that was NOT my question, and you very well know it...you stated..."Just don't let atheists become school teachers."...and I asked you if you really would deny someone becoming a school teacher, based on what they believed about God...
So, please answer the question I asked...
Network: Any thing reticulated or decussated, at equal distances, with interstices between the intersections. (See how he defined 'reticulated,' below.)...
Reticulated: Made of network; formed with interstitial vacuities.
Good luck. He hasn't answered my question yet, either.
I'm still waiting for a blanket condemnation of slavery from one of the "mll####" writers in these threads.
I wish I knew when I signed up that starting my user-name with 'ml' was going to be a problem. I would have given it more thought. Too late to change now, but I may start prefacing my posts with 'I am not ml**** or ml*****'.
I think it's an operation to reduce excess wrinkles in, you know, .... your wing-wang! (Sort of like a "tummy-tuck" only lower.)
;-)
When a slave owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner's property. (Exod. 21:20-21)Who then is the faithful and wise slave, whom his master has put in charge of his household, to give the other slaves their allowance of food at the proper time? Blessed is that slave whom his master will find at work when he arrives. (Matt. 24:45-46)
Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. Whoever teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that is in accordance with godliness, is conceited, understanding nothing, and has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words. From these come envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among those who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. (1Tim. 6:1-5)
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. (Eph. 6:5-6)
Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior. (Titus 2:9-10)
Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh. For it is a credit to you if, being aware of God, you endure pain while suffering unjustly. If you endure when you are beaten for doing wrong, what credit is that? But if you endure when you do right and suffer for it, you have God's approval. (1Pet. 2:18-29)
The slave should be resigned to his lot, in obeying his master he is obeying God... (Saint John Chrysostom)
I think the procedure is similar to one they use at Monsters, Inc.
I considered that, but thought it might instead be a reference to a camouflage practice common among trannies
That's not an "tuck," that's a wholesale inversion!
Highball...so I have noticed, on this thread...tho there is lots of bobbing, weaving, and ducking..but no answers to direct questions...
Tho to mlc9852s credit, I did post a question to him/her several days ago, when he stated almost as a fact, that more people homeschool for religious reasons than for other reasons...when I asked for proof of such a statement, and links to such proof, I was then told by mlc9852, that in fact, more people who homeschooled did so for 'environmental' reasons, than for religious reasons...no link provided tho...
So it appears, that mlc9852 was quite content to 'misspeak', about why people homeschool, and only when pressed had to admit that this was incorrect...
So, I am not surprised at anything mlc9852 might or might not say...
oops, sorry... I was insufficiently precise.
"trannies" as in "transvestites"
not "transexuals"
I would much prefer the federal government to stick to its intended purpose, which I do not believe involves telling local school boards what they can or cannot teach. But then I'm a conservative.
I it's not obvious to me that the federal government is preventing ID from being taught. And I'm not sure, but I think the accreditation institutions are not federal either. I also think the DOEducation doesn't dictate classroom agendas, or much of anything, unless the administration wants to accept the federal money attached to federal requirements. I presume, as the no-interference education conservative you are, you oppose Bush's "no child left behind" program.
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