Posted on 10/30/2005 11:10:32 PM PST by tarawa
Barbara-Anne Foley still remembers the day she got the call from the police that there had been "an accident" involving William Meyers, an 84-year-old Harwich resident who had been showing signs of mental confusion.
On that May day, Meyers took a .357 caliber Magnum, and "in his delusions shot his wife and shot himself," says Foley, the director of the Harwich Council on Aging. That was the final straw for Foley, who shortly before that had a gun taken away from an elderly man who reacted to an unexpected evening visit from his niece, by aiming a gun at her as she stood at the door.
Foley called state Rep. Shirley Gomes, R-Harwich, and said, "We need to do something about this."
Foley's concerns are not only for the safety of the individuals and their family, it's also for the community at large, including those sent to the home to provide care and services. It's a concern shared by other COA directors.
As a result of Foley's initial concern and the support she's received from other council on aging directors, a bill sponsored by Gomes, which would take guns out of the hands of those in mid- or late-stage Alzheimer's dementia, is now in committee. The bill calls for the current language that provides for license disqualification for those "under treatment for or confinement for drug addiction or habitual drunkenness," to also include the words "Alzheimer's dementia."
It further calls for an additional section that would require a doctor treating someone for Alzheimer's dementia to ask the patient if they possess any firearms. If it's determined that they do, the doctor would be required to notify police, who would confiscate the patient's firearms identification and guns.
Foley says the bill as currently worded doesn't go far enough, in that it is limited just to those with Alzheimer's dementia, leaving out other causes and forms of dementia. It also calls for only questioning the patient, who may no longer have the ability to understand or answer the question. And it limits the question to the patient's ownership of firearms. Foley says she would want to see the bill expanded to other forms of memory impairment and dementia, allow for a patient's caregiver to be questioned and include the question to include all firearms in the home.
Gomes says the bill was worded to reflect the request she received, but that there is still sufficient time to expand the category to include all suffering from the latter stages of dementia and memory loss.
"While the bill is in committee, we are able to make changes like that," Gomes says.
Cathy Pastva, executive director of Alzheimer's Services of Cape Cod and the Islands in Hyannis, says that while in the majority of cases Alzheimer's does not lead to increased aggression, some people become paranoid as their ability to retain what happened recently decreases.
"They can become fearful because they don't have recall," Pastva says.
But, she cautions, safety issues for those with Alzheimer's encompasses more than just guns. "I think there's a need for people to understand there are a number of things that have to be addressed at some point," Pastva says.
For those with Alzheimer's, a car, a stove and any one of a number of tools can present a deadly danger to them and others. Pastva suggests that the earlier the complete range of safety issues is addressed, the greater the likelihood of a positive outcome.
"In the early stage [of Alzheimer's] they are still very capable and competent," Pastva says. "That's when the discussions should take place."
Oh wonderful I like how their set piece answer is to have the guns grabbed; nothing about, say, having them passed on to other family.
All you have to do is ask a rabid anti-gun person if owning a gun is a symptom of dementia. I suspect the answer will be yes.
Questions I have are: (1) what is the objective criteria, (2) who decides, (3) is there a legal presumption in favor of sanity, and (4) will there be an inexpensive and speedy means of appeal of any adverse decisions?
These types of incidents are too rare...and look like the perfect excuse for the Sarah Brady nutjobs to use for confiscating guns from anyone they disagree with. I'd bet that the overwhelming majority of the DUmmies believe the conservatism is a form of mental illness. Do we want these clowns manipulating the 2nd Amendment? I don't think so.
Well, there goes the FBI and the BATFE.
What's next? Taking guns away from the deranged and certifiably insane? Then where will be?
I'm moving to France.
Having dementia by NO MEANS shouts that you will use your gun on someone else or yourself. NO WAY!
THIS is just another way to remove guns from people. Eventually they'll come up with more bogus crap and eventually disarm us all - THAT is the goal - keep chipping away and take advantage of peoples IGNORANCE.
This story is a classic example of what everyone in the U.S. must realize.
How many Congresses have there been over the past 200-plus years? How many State Legislatures?
How many laws have been adopted by those bodies?
I'm guessing there is ALREADY a law for getting goofy people away from firearms.
These lawmaking idiots trying to prolong their existence have forever been trying to make people think they have a purpose by creating "laws" based on individual accounts or news stories as if there wasn't already a law that governed them.
Occasionally they do this by naming laws after people, i.e. "Megan's Law."
The fact is, most every law regarding human behavior has already been written. The MSM supports the nation's lawyers by getting behind potential "new laws" that already are on the books, but simply haven't been given a "name" or interpreted ultra-specifically.
For example, if someone assaults a Norwegian account executive, there are ALREADY zillions of laws against assault on the books.
But your State Legislature, supported by attorneys hoping for cash, will suddenly decide a NEW law is needed specifically for Norwegian account executives who have been assaulted.
They will, therefore, enact "Sven's law" to govern this offense. It keeps 'em working.
The deal is -- ALL the laws have been written, the barristers are just trying to keep the gravy train going by making them more specific.
Lawyers are slime. And slimier still when they serve in our Congress and State Legislatures. They need to be replaced by actual humans.
Thomas Jefferson
The issue of people with dementia shooting others is trivial by comparison with the possibility of the government labeling any dissident as having "dementia" and disarming them.
As plausible, logical, and sensible as this law sounds, we are far better off as a nation to accept the very low level of casaulties we get from senile shooters than to give government yet another reason to disarm us.
Wouldn't most families take crazy old uncle Bob's iron away?
My mom was a crack shot as a young woman, and is now in the final stages of Alzheimer's.
It is so strange, for she never pulled a gun on any of her 7 kids, a few of whom were really asking for it, nor her second husband who REALLY deserved it, nor any of his 5 children, of whom at least 2 would have been a whole lot better for it!
Now, how do we parse that?
I understand the delusions of dementia perfectly. My Aunt, who died at the age of 93, had very grand delusions, illusions and fantasies which tore the family apart because she kept her ability to eloquently describe things on the phone. She constantly made up false stories about people she knew..Certain family members catered to her dementia because she had money. She also became very angry at those who dared to question anything she imagined. In our case, because of the money, only one or two families members would have mentioned gun issues, had she owned one. The heirs were all about the inheritance..They would not have moved to protect other individuals.
There is an objective medical definition of dementia and the test for it is fairly simple. My Mother-in-law was diagnosed a few years ago and the condition has progressed slowly but surely. Dementia is a progressive condition typically afflicting the aged. It is characterized by a loss of memory and proceeds to a condition where the afflicted looses touch with the present, has no short-term memory and loves largely in the past. Wild delusions are not typically part of the problem but can occur along with paranoia. I wouldn't want such a person to have a gun and I am very pro-gun.
Not good on a couple grounds:
1) If someone has dementia, will they stop to think before buying a gun?
2) It's too easy to "press" this kind of diagnosis and turn this into a psychological hocus pocus (a la ADHD). Reminds me of USSR where they diagnosed religious people as insane and put them "asylums."
I was closely involved in the care of a person with dementia who just died. In the initial stages she had extreme paranoia, mostly about people entering her home and stealing things. If she had possessed a gun it would not have been surprising to me if she used it in the wrong situation. But I also think that I probably would have easily been able to remove it , without the need to involve the government. Family members often have to take car keys away.
My father-in-law is 91 and has Alzheimer's disease. Five or six years ago he wanted to see his guns one evening and tried to "rack" the slide on a M1911A1 without success as he was just too frail to do so. At the urging of the family we did "take" his guns out of the house as he was becoming more and more distraught over the condition of his wife who had Parkinson's disease.
We left a .58 caliber black powder rifle that he had made, but did take the caps for it. He is not alone and helpless as he is less than 1/4 mile from us and there is a 24/7 caregiver with him who is more than capable of handling any emergency that may come their way.
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