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Obstruction for What? Libby is charged with lying about a crime that wasn't committed.
Wall Street Journal.com ^ | 29 October, 2005 | unattributed

Posted on 10/29/2005 3:10:01 AM PDT by YaYa123

Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation took nearly two years, sent a reporter to jail, cost millions of dollars, and preoccupied some of the White House's senior officials. The fruit it has now borne is the five-count indictment of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the Vice President's Chief of Staff--not for leaking the name of Valerie Plame to Robert Novak, which started this entire "scandal," but for contradictions between his testimony and the testimony of two or three reporters about what he told them, when he told them, and what words he used.

Mr. Fitzgerald would not comment yesterday on whether he had evidence for the perjury, obstruction of justice and false statement counts beyond the testimonies of Mr. Libby and three journalists. Instead, he noted that a criminal investigation into a "national security matter" of this sort hinged on "very fine distinctions," and that any attempt to obscure exactly who told what to whom and when was a serious matter.

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 5countindictment; cialeak; fitzpatrick; gutless; libby; politicalhack; rove; wsj
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To: sport
Fritzgerald is nothing more that a hack for the Democtats with a kangeroo Grand Jury. During his press conference Fritzgerald violated Libby's Constitutional rights to a fair trial numerous times.

How so? As far as I know, the prosecutor is under no obligation to refrain from accusatory rhetoric.

And it's Fitzgerald.

101 posted on 10/29/2005 5:45:08 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: YaYa123

MR. RUSSERT: You also write in Time magazine this week, "This was actually my second testimony for the special prosecutor. In August 2004, I gave limited testimony about my conversation with [Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff] Scooter Libby. Libby had also given me a special waiver, and I gave a deposition in the office of my attorney. I have never discussed that conversation until now. In that testimony, I recorded an on-the-record conversation with Libby that moved to background. On the record, he denied that Cheney knew"--of--"or played any role the Wilson trip to Niger. On background, I asked Libby if he had heard anything about Wilson's wife sending her husband to Niger. Libby replied, `Yeah, I've heard that, too,' or words to that effect."

Did you interpret that as a confirmation?

MR. COOPER: I did, yeah.

MR. RUSSERT: Did Mr. Libby say at any time that Joe Wilson's wife worked for the CIA?

MR. COOPER: No, he didn't say that.

MR. RUSSERT: But you said it to him?

MR. COOPER: I said, "Was she involved in sending him?," yeah.

MR. RUSSERT: And that she worked for the CIA?

MR. COOPER: I believe so.


102 posted on 10/29/2005 5:45:26 AM PDT by kabar
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To: YaYa123
When the CIA sends an administration critic on an assignment, and the critic then uses information from the assignment to very publicly criticize the administration while claiming the Vice President sent him on the assignment, the fault in public exposure of this event lies with the CIA and the critic, not with the administration. The CIA and any and all of its bureaucrats involved should expect to be exposed. Any crime in that exposure would lie with them.

I will fault the administration for not issuing a press release with all of this pertinent information in it. I will not fault them for exposing the story. Libby should have been even more public with his story, not less.
103 posted on 10/29/2005 5:46:26 AM PDT by norwaypinesavage
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To: billclintonwillrotinhell
If Libby intentionally lied under oath, he deserves to be in hot water. I hope Bush continues to take the high road on this case because Mr. Fitzgerald appears to be an outstanding and fair-minded prosecutor.

Do you think he deserves to be dropped in the water as hot as it is? Some talking heads were saying Libby could do 30 years if convicted on all the crimes. This for a man that testified freely, multiple times and turned over all his notes. Fitzgerald, fair minded or not, charged Libby like a child molester. Throwing in every little charge he can think of. Time will tell what Libby did but I don't think he should be facing 30 years. Libby may very well want to end all of this but what kind of a deal are you going to get from a guy who charges with enough crimes to serve 30 years?

Fitzgerald didn't even charge him with outing a CIA agent. But he basically but accused him of doing so. And Fitzgerald wouldn't even answer the question to if Plame was actually a covert agent or not. This guy doesn't sound that fair minded to me. And so far, we have only heard Fitzgerald's side of this. Libby very well could deserve to be in some trouble. But he also could have just made a mistake. How sure are you of something that happened a month ago? 2 months ago or even a year ago? Also if this thing ever does go to a jury, I don't think a judge will let in all the charges.

104 posted on 10/29/2005 5:47:12 AM PDT by pepperhead (Kennedy's float, Mary Jo's don't!)
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To: YaYa123
Very "fine distinctions?" In other words, the feds want to convict Libby for not having the same account as the media's reporters. Its a difference of honest opinion, not a lie. How did we come to indicting people for having their own views? You're right, there's no real crime here - none at all. Fitzgerald admits as much and he had to cook up a manufactured charge for he would have had to close up shop after millions of dollars spent with absolutely nothing to show for it - and get this - NONE of the real questions answered.

("Denny Crane: Gun Control? For Communists. She's a liberal. Can't hunt.")

105 posted on 10/29/2005 5:51:15 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: YaYa123
In other words, Mr. Libby was defending Administration policy against political attack, not committing a crime.

Libby is not even indicted for "lying to the media." He is indicted for not accurately recollecting (allegedly) all the conversations he had two years ago.

106 posted on 10/29/2005 5:51:23 AM PDT by wouldntbprudent
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To: Cboldt
If Libby hadn't lied (assuming the facts as laid out in the indictment), the GJ would have disbanded with no bill.

Possibly so.

But was the timeline? At what point in the "investigation" was it clear that either Libby or the reporters were lying? Do we know? This seems important to me since it was clear at a very early stage that Plame had been stationed in the U.S. for over 5 years and was not covered by the applicable law. This would be a fact easily discovered by Fitzgerald and the investigation should have been over at that point.

107 posted on 10/29/2005 5:52:01 AM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: billclintonwillrotinhell
I was very impressed with Fitzgerald's press conference yesterday, and I think Bush is impressed with Fitzgerald, too, which is why he was appointed in the first place and why the White House hasn't attacked him.

If accusing people of crimes you didn't indite on is impressive, I guess there is something wrong with me. And Bush didn't appoint him.

108 posted on 10/29/2005 5:52:46 AM PDT by pepperhead (Kennedy's float, Mary Jo's don't!)
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To: YaYa123

See, I just do not get this argument. You can't lie under oath even if the investigation later turns up nothing. You just can't lie. You cannot obstruct the judicial process regardless of the outcome of the case. Do we really want oath takers to be able to think, "well, this investigation is bogus so I'll just lie..." I really do not get that argument.


109 posted on 10/29/2005 5:55:17 AM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Ps. 14:34)
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To: counterpunch
Exactly. Bottom line - it looks like the case is about criminalizing conservative politics. When was the last time someone went to jail for disagreeing with the MSM? Unless there's more to this that Fitzgerald decided not reveal, I think the government's case is awfully weak.

("Denny Crane: Gun Control? For Communists. She's a liberal. Can't hunt.")

110 posted on 10/29/2005 5:55:57 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: mombrown1
We still don't know who 'outed' Valerie Plame or if she was 'outed' or who told who what? Isn't that why the Special Prosecutor was appointed?

Fitzgerald danced all around that. If Fitzgerald had a clone and his clone asked him all the questions he got in the press conference room, in the grand jury room. Fitzgerald himself might be facing 30 years.

111 posted on 10/29/2005 5:56:36 AM PDT by pepperhead (Kennedy's float, Mary Jo's don't!)
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To: Godebert
"Outstanding and fair-minded"?!?! Gimme a break. This Fitzgerald clown is a partisan hack in the same vein as Ronny Earle.

Fitzgerald isn't a partisan hack....... He is just a hack.

112 posted on 10/29/2005 5:58:00 AM PDT by pepperhead (Kennedy's float, Mary Jo's don't!)
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To: wouldntbprudent
Suuure. How many of you accurately recall a conversation you had last week let alone 20 years ago?

("Denny Crane: Gun Control? For Communists. She's a liberal. Can't hunt.")

113 posted on 10/29/2005 5:58:42 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

Not just reporters. It is apparent from the indictment that many government officials gave an account at odds with Libby's.


114 posted on 10/29/2005 5:59:22 AM PDT by lugsoul
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To: zeebee
I heard Fitz say he does not know who the leaker was because Libby obstructed the investigation.

Out of everything about the indictment this probably confuses me the most.
What Fitz is saying is "I can`t prove the original crime because Libby lied to me."
Well if that is the case than to know it is a lie means that one has to know what the truth is,which at that point would cause his statement to be illogical and false.

115 posted on 10/29/2005 5:59:45 AM PDT by carlr
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To: goldstategop
Suuure. How many of you accurately recall a conversation you had last week let alone 20 years ago?

If he couldn't accurately recall it, why didn't he say that instead of trying to answer?

116 posted on 10/29/2005 6:00:14 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: Sacajaweau

Some one else mentioned that. I may have them mixed up, but I'm pretty sure there was a thread about Russert's "memory failure" yesterday. In the Rove case, an e-mail seems to have disproved Cooper, but in the case of Russert, it was his own notes (after they were subpoenaed) that disproved his contention that he did not talk about welfare reform with Libby.

I could certainly be wrong, because I've read so much about this it's possible that it has all run together in my mind. But if I'm not (faulty memory - thank goodness not before a GJ!), I do think it was coordinated. This would explain why in each case the ostensible topic was welfare reform,which was a legitimate news issue in the news at the time, but a little attempt was made at the last minute to winkle out some information about Wilson.


117 posted on 10/29/2005 6:00:15 AM PDT by livius
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To: Paladin2

What frosted me about the press con yesterday was Fitzie's monologue about how outing CIA agents will affect recruiting of agents, etc.

HELLO. Recruiting of agents is impacted ONLY if someone INTENTIONALLY compromised the cover of a COVERT agent. Otherwise, this is just in the category of "it happens."

No one thinks Libby intentional compromised a covert agent. Fitzie can't even answer the quesion of whether Plame was a covert agent!

Fitzie's pontificating about how Libby's alleged conduct had this horrible effect on national security because it made people afraid to become CIA agents was lame and embarrassing.

He is claiming an effect without bothering himself with whether the "cause" occurred.

If Libby or anyone else actually intentional lies about a material fact under oath, well, hang 'em high. That's the difference between us and the Rats. We don't overlook wrongdoing/rule of law because of political agendas (although, admittedly, it's very disappointing when a good man goes down and someone like Bubba, a known and proven liar, gets off simply because of his political position).

But it's the commitment to the rule of law that requires us to evaluate whether this is simply the criminalization of politics, an act that actually UNDERMINES the law and NATIONAL SECURITY.

It sures looks that way at the moment.


118 posted on 10/29/2005 6:00:34 AM PDT by wouldntbprudent
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To: YaYa123
After all this it's anti-climatic to indict Libby. These look like indictments just for the sake of indictments.
119 posted on 10/29/2005 6:01:18 AM PDT by manwiththehands
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
That's because it is not an argument. It is a stupid talking point of people who want to excuse a crime when it is committed by people on 'their side.'

Getting a BJ in the Oval is not a crime, either. But that doesn't mean it is okay to lie about it under oath.

120 posted on 10/29/2005 6:02:03 AM PDT by lugsoul
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