Gitmo Gulag? Serious bad guys at Guantanamo would love to kill you. (Abuse BY prisoners)

Gitmo Gulag? Serious bad guys at Guantanamo would love to kill you. Have a nice day.

There is indeed abuse going on at Guantanamo--but it's abuse by savage inmates against our troops.

GUANTANAMO BAY, CUBA--In the fall of 2001, the U.S. Naval Facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba ("Gitmo" to those who live here) was teetering on the edge of oblivion, with a skeleton crew of fewer than 2,000 service members on duty. Now a contingent of more than 10,000 resides here. Behind that surge: the need for secure confinement of a collection of human debris snatched from the battlefields of Afghanistan in early 2002.

These "detainees" are not innocent foot soldiers, or confused Afghan opium farmers drafted by the Taliban. They are Islamic fundamentalists from across the Middle East, rabid jihadists who have dedicated their lives to the destruction of America and Western civilization.

Among the residents are al-Qaida organizers, bomb makers, financial specialists, recruiters of suicide attackers, and just plain killers. Many of these men met frequently with Osama bin Laden. The terrorist Maad Al Qahtani--a Saudi who is a self-confessed collaborator with the Sept. 11 hijackers--is one of many infamous captives.

In the opening salvos of the global war on terror, our forces took a lot of prisoners from the battlefield. Estimates are that more than 70,000 Taliban and al-Qaida fighters were captured and screened. Of that number, approximately 800 were deemed of such high value for intelligence purposes, or such a severe threat in their own person, that they needed to be interrogated and confined in a secure locale from which they could not easily escape or be rescued.

I was able to observe conditions at the detention facility, firsthand, at the end of June, when I was invited to join a group of 10 former military and intelligence analysts on an inspection tour. Briefings commenced aboard our aircraft shortly after takeoff, and continued until landing.

We were met planeside by Brig. Gen. Jay Hood, the commanding officer of Joint Task Force Gitmo, whose soldiers are responsible for the security, interrogation, housing, and oversight of all the terrorists confined there. Gen. Hood and his staff fielded all questions and criticisms, and were very forthcoming.

While we observed absolutely no evidence of torture of prisoners at Gitmo, it is clear that the daily atmosphere is rife with harsh abuse: The prisoners are constantly assaulting the guards.

Our young military men and women routinely endure the vilest invective imaginable, including death threats that spill over to guards' families. All soldiers and sailors working "inside the wire" have blacked out their name tags so that the detainees will not learn their identities. Before that step was taken the terrorists were threatening to tell their al-Qaida pals still at large who the guards were.

"We will look you up on the Internet," the prisoners said. "We will find you and slaughter you and your family in your homes at night. We will cut your throats like sheep. We will drink the blood of the infidel."

That is bad enough, but the terrorist prisoners throw more than words at the guards. On a daily basis, American soldiers carrying out their duties within the maximum-security camp are barraged with feces, urine, semen, and spit hurled by the detainees. Secretly fashioned weapons intended for use in attacking guards or fellow detainees are confiscated regularly.

When food or other items are passed through the "bean hole"--an opening approximately 4 inches by 24 inches in the cell doors--the detainees have grabbed at the wrists and arms of the Americans feeding them and tried to break their bones.

When guards enter the cells to remove detainees for interrogation sessions, medical visits, or any number of reasons, detainees sometimes climb on the metal bunks and leap on the guards. They have crammed themselves under the bunks, requiring several guards to extract them. Some have attacked unsuspecting soldiers with steel chairs.

Determined to inflict maximum damage, detainees have groped under the protective face masks of the guards, clawing their faces and trying to gouge eyes and tear mouths.

Keep in mind that our soldiers--young men and young women--are absolutely forbidden from responding in kind. They are constrained to maintain absolute discipline and follow humane operating procedures at all times, at risk of serious punishment.

Documents recently obtained by The Associated Press through a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit show that one detainee punched a guard in the mouth, knocking out his tooth, then began to bite the MP. Several guards were required to repel the prisoner's attack; one soldier who came to the rescue delivered two blows to the inmate's head with a handheld radio.

In a different incident, an MP doused with toilet water responded by spraying the offending inmate with a hose. For this he was charged with assault.

Another American soldier was disciplined for cursing at inmates. One guard punched a detainee after being struck and spit on while placing the man in restraints in the prison hospital in October, 2004. ("My instincts took over after the hitting and spitting," the soldier wrote in his report.)

He was recommended for a reduction in rank to E-4, loss of a month's pay, and extra duty for 45 days.

How cooperative a detainee is determines where he is housed, how much free time he is given, whether he lives alone or in a group, and what color clothing he wears. The most dangerous wear an orange jump suit. Those who heed instructions earn a beige jumpsuit, and those who are deemed to be fully compliant wear white. The latter groups have daily recreation periods, live in groups of as many as 10, and receive extra privileges.

The compliance rating, by the way, has nothing to do with cooperation with interrogators. Indeed, many fully compliant detainees have maintained stoic silence, while some of the most notorious, dangerous prisoners speak freely with interrogators.

Nearly all of these hardened terrorists have been well-coached on how to be an American captive. Given any opportunity, they will all claim torture and human-rights violations. They have been schooled on counter-interrogation techniques, on how to construct and maintain a cover story, and other subterfuges to fool or deflect interrogators.

Some detainees, including one classified as a "high value intelligence source" that I was able to observe, take pride in discussing their activities and capabilities with interrogators. The man I saw brags about Americans he has killed, other Muslims he has terrorized, attacks he has planned and carried out, and what he will do to the Americans if he has a chance.

He is a leader, and affirms his high rank within the al-Qaida chain. He has started or ended riotous behavior by fellow prisoners on more than one occasion.

With twisted irony, this individual condemns prisoners who maintain silence for being "ashamed" of their past. "They ought to proclaim their feats as proof of their commitment to the cause of Islam," he tells interrogators, while munching continuously from a box of doughnuts provided by the interrogator. Why the doughnuts? "He throws his food at the guards," General Hood says, "so he loves to eat the doughnuts during the interrogation sessions."

Functional leniency? We asked Hood if he was possibly being too lenient with these men. "This system of rapport-building works," Hood assures us. In support of the soft-handed approach, he cites an extraordinary amount of actionable intelligence that continues to flow out of the interrogation rooms of Gitmo.

His revelation was a surprise to me. During my own career in the U.S. Army Special Forces, I had been taught that intelligence, like bread, gets stale quickly. That may be true for tactical intelligence of the sort I used in the field. Strategic intelligence, however--the kind that we continue to collect at Gitmo--seems to have a much longer shelf life.

Today's interrogators are succeeding at mapping out the complex organizational and financial structure of al-Qaida in increasing detail, thereby uncovering networks that need to be attacked and dismantled. They are uncovering new "sleeper" cells. They are learning of temporarily shelved plans for new terrorist attacks, some of which have subsequently been thwarted by law enforcement authorities in America and Europe.

Another surprise for me was learning that many of the U.S. interrogators are women. We have all heard the salacious stories about using women to tease or embarrass the detainees. I saw a different reality. The camp behavioral expert, a female Ph.D. who has more than two years of experience at Gitmo, informed me that female interrogators have been very effective.

"We assume the role of sister or mother," she explained, "something that is quite acceptable and natural in their culture." She dresses demurely for her sessions. "I wear long sleeves, an ankle-length dress, and little makeup": The interrogation room she enters is sparsely furnished with leg cuffs to secure the prisoner, a one-way mirror, cameras, and a distress button to summon help if needed.

"We review what we know of their backgrounds, try lots of approaches, and work on them to find something that they can relate to."

It is a long, complex process requiring great patience, and more than a little human empathy. It categorically rejects the use of drugs, coercion, or duress.

Intelligence gleaned from Gitmo is blended with information from other sources to connect dots. We learned that one noncooperative detainee had his cover penetrated just last month by having his photo identified by a freshly captured fighter in Afghanistan. Once confronted with his real identity, he began to talk.

It is important to keep in mind that these men, while exceedingly dangerous and even pathological in their desire to kill Westerners, are generally well-educated and broadly traveled. Several detainees have advanced degrees in law, engineering, and medicine from American and European schools like the University of London.

Others are highly skilled technical experts with advanced training and knowledge of electronics and demolitions. (Some of these are contributing to our knowledge of al-Qaida bombs found in Iraq.) Many of these men occupied the top al-Qaida echelons, and met frequently with bin Laden.

A lot of these men came from middle-class or wealthy families. They come from 17 different countries, but a great many are Saudi Arabian. They are not driven by poverty, unemployment, or class deprivation. They are motivated by a virulent form of Islam that promotes jihad and death to Western civilization.

They will kill Americans--including women and children--without conscience, for they are convinced that restoration of the Islamic caliphate is their sole mission on this Earth.

Many readers will have heard stories about detainees sleeping in air-conditioned berths, while the American troops guarding them sweated in tents. You may have heard that American soldiers were eating MREs while the terrorists dined on three "hots" daily, providing about 2,600 calories of carefully varied food. Those stories were correct.

Conditions for camp guards have been improved dramatically, however. I ate heartily with the soldiers and sailors working the camps (the Navy supplies a large number of experienced Masters at Arms), and learned how they feel about their mission. Universally, they are proud of their work, although somewhat disappointed that the American public is not more aware of the difficulties they undergo to keep us safe.

One young woman at my table, an Army private first class, was asked what she thought about rhetoric in the American media, and from the mouths of elected officials like Sens. Richard Durbin (D-Ill.) and Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.), describing our service members at Guantanamo as "Nazis."

Frowning, she answered, "It hurts my feelings to hear that junk. We try to do as good a job as possible down here. These detainees are dangerous. They try to kill us every time we get close to them, and would certainly kill Americans if released."

I asked her if morale was affected by such political statements. "I'll tell you this," she replied, breaking into a grin. "Every time we get called those names we decide we're going to show 'em. We focus on our mission and work harder."

Guards pull several days of duty inside the wire, and are then rotated out. They need the relief from the intense pressure inside. But the time outside is not R&R; training continues on a constant basis. Gitmo has some of the most detailed and comprehensive procedural rules in the military. Supervision is constant, random inspections are common, all supervisors in the chain of command are held responsible for the actions of subordinates, and soldiers are schooled to report infractions.

The American service members at Guantanamo do not have the satisfaction of tossing a grenade or shooting back at the terrorists in their midst. They will not be recognized when awards for valor are bestowed.

In the face of vile abuse they must respond with supreme restraint, aware that even the slightest infraction will draw the fury and condemnation of hyperbolic politicians and reporters who loathe our military and want nothing more than to embarrass and damage American interests in this war.

For defense against irresponsible and slanderous charges, these men and women rely on ordinary Americans--those of us who rest at home in the shadow of safety they cast.

Gotta do your homework BEFORE you spout. Here is the relevant passage from the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment

...the United States understands that, in order to constitute torture, an act must be specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering and that mental pain or suffering refers to prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from (1) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering; (2) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality; (3) the threat of imminent death; or (4) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality.

Since we have already been a signatory to this treaty for 18 years I guess I don't know what all of the commotion is about. The prisoners do not get to decide what torture is the United States Senate has already done so.

Now you should read the UN document:

Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment

http://www.ohchr.org/english/law/cat.htm

Some excerpts:

" For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions. "

NOTE that even "intimidation" is considered "torture" and they define it as "physical or MENTAL" -- they can claim that being locked up if mental torture.

This article highlights why Bush will never "win" in Iraq - we'll just stay there, getting guys killed day by day, forever.

Because winning will take overwhelming badass actions in the face of UN outrage, we'll never win.

Spray them with pig blood, execute them and mail the bodies back to their Moo shitholes. Make it clear that they'll get the death they seek, but on our terms and in a manner that guarantees they never get to meet their mythical Allah.

Bush's plan is to keep screwing around until he leaves office, then pass the buck to Hillary (the way things are going).

You quoted from the specific reservations countries had, beyond the reservations stated, they are accepting the bill.

Correct because THAT is what the The McCain Bill specifically references i.e. "the United States Reservations, Declarations and Understandings to the United Nations Convention..." it does not mention ANYTHING about the broader language of the bill.

The McCain amendment uses the definition of torture, approved by the US Senate and signed by President Reagan, that has been the law of the land for 18 years as the definition for torture.

I said before that I questioned if you had read the bill. It seems as if you have read it you just have not yet understood what it means. I hope I have helped to clarify this for you.

This isn't forest and trees stuff. This is what they law actually says. You want to believe it is a terrorist protection law, it is not. Let's discuss what it actually is.

The McCain amendment gives terrorists certain protections which are the same as any American would have, yes.

They are:

Article [V.]
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

I don't believe these scumbags were ever in danger of being summarily executed or otherwise punished so I'm not sure how this gives them any rights we were not already going to extend in any case. Does that one bother you?

Article [VIII.]
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

I know that whole "cruel and unusual" thing probably bugs you but our guys are pros they are not going to rip anyones fingernails out. Does that one bother you?

Excerpted for obvious reasons:

Article XIV.
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This one says that the Jose Padillas of the world get the same rights as you or I. Does that one bother you?

Having seen several death-threat type comments spamming many sites, the internet and how it's used by terrorists really should be undergoing some sort of examination by U.S. military/Justice. I worry that it isn't, is my point, but that I can attest firsthand that the terrorist threats are ongoing on the internet.

They are motivated by a virulent form of Islam that promotes jihad and death to Western civilization.

They will kill Americans--including women and children--without conscience, for they are convinced that restoration of the Islamic caliphate is their sole mission on this earth.

Maybe these -er- prisoners need some head gear.

And we can treat them with dignity as soon as THEY start following modern conventions (let me know when they sign the papers, too). They might want to stop road-side-bombing us; they haven't slammed planes into buildings in awhile, and I haven't had to see many beheadings lately. But McCain's ~~CFR~~ Gitmo Prisoner Kindness Act does not erase these things.

"This one says that the Jose Padillas of the world get the same rights as you or I. Does that one bother you?"

====

First of all it isn't just the Jose Padilla's of the world, but the Bin Laden's, Al zawahiri's and Mohammed Atta's of the world would get the same right as we, as US citizens have, along with the lawyers and the whole bit.

And YES, IT BOTHERS ME. I find it quite amazing that it doesn't bother you. What about OUR rights to NOT be murdered and blown up by these terrorists? One terrorist can murder thousands of Americans. This is a new paradigm. If we wait for them to commit a crime, for which we can try them in US courts, it's too late, thousands of Americans may be dead. That's why the emphasis is on getting information to PREVENT the deaths of thousands of Americans.

First of all it isn't just the Jose Padilla's of the world, but the Bin Laden's, Al zawahiri's and Mohammed Atta's of the world would get the same right as we, as US citizens have, along with the lawyers and the whole bit.

The amendment says: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States..."

Was OBL born here or did he become a citizen later?

Read first, think second, answer last.

I forgot to answer this part.

If we wait for them to commit a crime, for which we can try them in US courts, it's too late

Please point out where I said we should be waiting or putting them on trial. I said we need not torture them.

Can you find anything from people in the intelligence agencies that says we need to torture these people? I am willing to be convinced.

Everything I have read says no. The Army (based on their field manual) says no. We have an international obligation, in place for nearly 2 decades, that commit us to not torture people. Why would we go back on those obligations what is there to gain?

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