Posted on 10/20/2005 10:58:49 AM PDT by Crackingham
A federal appeals court here heard arguments yesterday that a public school's effort to acquaint students with Islam went too far by having the students don Islamic dress, recite phrases from the Koran, and mimic the fasting associated with the Muslim observance of Ramadan.
Two Christian families from Contra Costa County, Calif., east of Oakland, charged in a 2002 lawsuit that a role-playing curriculum used to teach seventh-graders about Islamic history and culture violated the Constitution's prohibition against the establishment of religion. The students also engaged in a "race to Mecca."
A federal judge in San Francisco threw out the case in 2003, but the families appealed. An attorney for the families, Edward White III, told a three judge panel of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals yesterday that during the eight-week unit on Islam, religious teachings were described as "facts" and students were instructed to wear name tags that included the religion's star-and-crescent imagery. "All of these actions are crossing the line," said Mr. White, a lawyer with a Michigan-based legal advocacy group for Christians, the Thomas More Law Center.
Mr. White also accused the courts of applying a double standard that is more tolerant of Islam in public schools than of Christian and Jewish faiths. "If this case dealt with the teaching of Catholicism ... of course people would say you're endorsing religion," the lawyer said.
The arguments against the curriculum got a skeptical reception from the appeals court judges. Judge Dorothy Nelson said that many aspects of the instruction were cultural and historical. "Doesn't this seem more like a secular experience than a religious experience?" she asked. "Are you saying our children should not be taught the history of all the religions of the world?
(Excerpt) Read more at nysun.com ...
Let's see.....
Mimicking a pilgrimage to Mecca....
Mimicking Ramadan fasting.....
Donning traditional Islamic garb...
Sure, seems secular to me!
Judge Nelson, you are an IDIOT!
"The students also engaged in a "race to Mecca." "
Cool. I'll be role-playing as a Tomohawk, you be an ICBM. Last nuke there is a dud!
And any of the well run private schools, one of which my youngest attends.
Lets also not forget the home schoolers of America.
"Are you saying our children should not be taught the history of all the religions of the world?
But if we were to teach the children the history of Judiaism and Christianity that might include creationism and that would interfere with our indoctrination of evolution. :( Couldn't have that.
/sarc off
Oh no, Nelson is not an idiot. She knows exactly what she is doing and is playing her role quite well.
they need to take the people who started this muslim s--t out for an old fashion ass whupping-is their lsd in the water in SAN FRAN or what?
I am not opposed to teaching about islam in public schools.
Students should be taught that virtually all terrorist acts are committed by muslims, that islam is a twisted cult, based on hate, that devote muslims would happily kill them, their friends and their parents . . . well there is just so much to say about islam.
They had the kids were Muslim like clothes to school and kneel down towards Mecca in class ... do you NOT have a problem with that
were = wear
Tell you what, Judge Nelson, I'll offer you one better:
We can have 32 weeks on Islam, 8 each for Sunni, Shi'ite (twelvers), Ismaeli (Shi'ite seveners), and Sufi, but then we get 8 weeks each, with similar role-playing, deference to pious sensibilities of the adherents, etc. for
Eastern Orthodoxy (double dose--one for Greek and one for Russian), Coptic Christianity, Armenian Christianity, Assyrian Christianity, Roman Catholicism (double dose here, too--one for Latin Rite, one for Eastern Rite), Anglicanism, Lutheranism, Calvinism, Moravianism, Mennonitism (double dose--one for Amish, and one for other Mennonites), . . .
And we'll give in for the other world religions: 8 weeks each for Orthodox, Conservative and Reformed Judasism, (oh and toss in 8 weeks for the Ethical Culture Society movement) Minhayana, Mahayana, Tibetan, and Zen Buddhism, Mormonism, Scientology, Hinduism, Taoism, Shintoism, a few different classes of African animism, Santeria, Rastafarianism. . .
And throw in 8 weeks each for Marxist secular humanism, and democratic-socialist secular humanism (provided they're gotten out of the curriculum everywhere else!)
From dunderheads we have this statement Judge Dorothy Nelson said that many aspects of the instruction were cultural and historical. "Doesn't this seem more like a secular experience than a religious experience?" she asked. "Are you saying our children should not be taught the history of all the religions of the world?
Children can be taught comparitive religions by the use of textbooks, and other teaching materials. But once you require students to role play and to adopt and/or mimic any religious practice you have crossed the line. The school in essence was asking the students to become Muslim , since one of the defining elements of any religion is its practices. If the school made someone dress like a priest and distribute " communion" it would be commiting the same error.
The constitution is clear that Gov't shall not establish a religion. There is no clause that allows a religion to be established for a minimum period of time. I would argue that the school did indeed endorse and allow the establishment of Islam in the school.
This here is the perfect example of the difference between freedom of religion and forcing people to practice it. The being obviously the latter.
When was the last time, in this country, where someone in public school was forced to pray and worship as Christians do?
The same goes for the teaching of evolution. Don't like it? Too bad. If you don't pander to the school's dogmatic policies, then you get bad grades. Kids everyday are being forced in public schools to set their beliefs (whatever religion they may hold) aside.
The thing is that parents have lost their control and rights to the government officials.
I think we should give them swords and demonstrate head removal techniques as an intro to Islam.
"Oh no, Nelson is not an idiot. She knows exactly what she is doing and is playing her role quite well."
Yep. Not knowing her I am loathe to say she hates God (the real one, the one who had a carpenter for a son), but I strongly suspect that is the issue.
Good enough reason for schools arounf the Country to do just that! They could make the case that it is a part of US History..Our Founders were Christian AFter all.
Yeah, where is the "Rev" Barry Lynn when Islam is openly promoted?
Are they going to kick girls out of school for this particular lesson? After all - girls aren't allowed in schools in orthodox Islamic nations.
So here we have PC. The new school production of Thanksgiving has white students shooting and killing indian students.
So with the new spirit of PC will the school play about 9-11 will feature President Bush (and his Jewish advisors) paying starving Saudis to fly planes into the twin towers?
How sad it will be for them when they realize that Gay rights and Islam just do not mesh.
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