Skip to comments.Able Danger, Gorelick and Suspending Disbelief
Posted on 10/20/2005 3:37:30 AM PDT by ovrtaxt
click here to read article
First I have heard of this Executive Order. Now, this article is from August, and much more info has surfaced since then about the actual legal resoning behind the communications, or lack thereof, between Able Danger and the FBI. The author seems to think that Gorelick's memo couldn't have had an effect on Able Danger. I can't recall which specific law was cited in the Senate hearing, but it wasn't the Gorelick memo specifically. Whatever it was, how could it have existed alongside this executive order?
From Northeast Intelligence Network:link at
In his research and evaluation of this matter, Sean Osborne has affirmed the long-term legal standing of Executive Order 12333 and how it heretofore has been completely ignored. The oversight functions of the Congress have also been virtually non-existent, at least to date.
Was there a coup d'etat of the Republic by some unelected judiciary or an invisible government at some point in the past 20 years? None that would be apparent to the public, which is the reason for the firm attachment to this issue as THE core issue regarding Project Able Danger and the unprecedented intelligence failure which resulted in the events of 9/11/2001. This failure clearly occurred during the mid-to-late 1990s, and by virtue of continuing to ignore those failures, continues even today.
Here are the facts: President Ronald Reagan issued Executive Order 12333 entitled "United States Intelligence Activities" on 4 December 1981.
Here is the historical data concerning this specific Executive Order:
Executive Order 12333
United States Intelligence Activities
# Signed: December 4, 1981
# Federal Register page and date: 46 FR 59941; December 8, 1981
# Amends: EO 12139, May 23, 1979
# Amended by: EO 13284, January 23, 2003; EO 13355, August 27, 2004
# Revokes: EO 12036, January 24, 1978
# See: EO 12564, September 15, 1986; Pub. L. 102-396 (106 Stat. 1910); EO 12829, January 6, 1993; EO 13231, October 16, 2001; EO 13283, January 21, 2003; EO 13354, August 27, 2004; EO 13356, August 27, 2004
E.O. 13284 Amended EO 12333 on 23 January 2003 with the establishment of the Department of Homeland Security and its insertion into United States Intelligence Activities, per Section 18. This EO did nothing to otherwise alter the legal effect to EO 12333.
E.O. 13355 Amended E.O. 12333 on 27 August 2004 which Strengthened Management of the Intelligence Community per its Section 2 and applied directly to E.O. 12333. This E.O. strengthened the legal provisions of E.O. 12333.
Therefore, there is no legal basis for the provisions of Executive Order 12333 to have been interfered with or blatantly ignored by Department of Justice or Department of Defense lawyers pursuant to the exchange of intelligence data between USSOCOM project Able danger and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Furthermore, E.O. 12333 mandated such collaboration and exchanges of data occur specifically between the DoD and the FBI when intelligence data was indicative of international terrorist activity occurred or was active within the territory of the United States.
I am sure some tech savvy freeper can research this.
I think it was the Church Commission you're thinking of.
In any case, Reagan signed Executive Order 12333 in 1981. Seems like that should have been the legal basis for the DOD lawyers to handle the Able Danger info. The fact that they didn't implicates a political motivation that superceded a commitment to national security.
Interesting reading here.
This from Wikipedia:
Fox News pundit Bill O'Reilly and others have asserted that the Able Danger intelligence was suppressed as a result of "the wall." During the 9/11 Commission hearings, then-Attorney General John Ashcroft alleged the wall was strengthened under the Clinton administration by Jamie Gorelick to prohibit sharing of terrorist intelligence within the federal government. 
This assertion was disputed by former senator Slade Gorton (R-WA), a member of the 9-11 Commission, who said, "nothing Jamie Gorelick wrote had the slightest impact on the Department of Defense or its willingness or ability to share intelligence information with other intelligence agencies." Gorton also asserted that "the wall" was a long-standing policy that had resulted from the Church committee in the 1970s, and that the policy only prohibits transfer of certain information from prosecutors to the intelligence services and never prohibited information flowing in the opposite direction.
The controversy is beginning to damage the credibility of the 9/11 Commission in areas outside of Able Danger as well. Columnist Mike Kelly has written that the 9/11 Commission's work is "under a cloud." 
It is interesting reading and thanks for the ping.
I am wondering how Ashcroft would respond to this author. Ashcroft blamed Gorelick's wall of separation memo as a primary reason that intelligence agencies didn't share information.
Whether over zealous attorneys mis-read that memo or not remains to be seen, but since Congress seems reluctant to investigate this matter, we probably won't ever know.
Gorelick enhanced the wall to make it ever more difficult to share intelligence information that would enhance national security.
Right. Reagan's Executive Order should have superceded the wall. Why it didn't in the minds of these lawyers is a very large question.
I was thinking the VERY same thing.
What's wrong with this picture is what's wrong with our nation: the Clinton Communists are ruling it.
Do you remember which law was cited by Erik Kleinsmith, the guy who claimed that he was the one who deleted the info? I think it was a statute that limited the retention of info on civilians to 90 days. This seems to be totally in opposition to the EO 12333.
It was the law that limited retention of information on "US persons" which he took pains to explain also included people here on visas. What the name of the law is, I'm afraid I don't remember.
No matter who first created a "wall" between intelligence agencies, the gargantuan stupidity of bureaucracy knows no bounds.
And 3000 people lost their lives.
Weird article. Yet another "expert" heard from. Where is any sense of anything but "know-it-all-ism" in his plaint?
In any case, here's the section of EO 12333 cited by the author:
And specifically this section:
(d) The foreign intelligence and counterintelligence elements of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps, whose responsibilities shall include:
(1) Collection, production and dissemination of military and military-related foreign intelligence and counterintelligence, and information on the foreign aspects of narcotics production and trafficking. When collection is conducted in response to national foreign intelligence requirements, it will be conducted in accordance with guidance from the Director of Central Intelligence. Collection of national foreign intelligence, not otherwise obtainable, outside the United States shall be coordinated with the CIA, and such collection within the United States shall be coordinated with the FBI;
(2) Conduct of counterintelligence activities outside the United States in coordination with the CIA, and within the United States in coordination with the FBI; and
(3) Monitoring of the development, procurement and management of tactical intelligence systems and equipment and conducting related research, development, and test and evaluation activities.
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