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Pa. professor [Behe] to testify in landmark case [Dover evolution trial, 16 Oct]
The Wichita Eagle ^ | 16 October 2005 | MICHAEL RUBINKAM

Posted on 10/16/2005 1:28:00 PM PDT by PatrickHenry

Marginalized by his university colleagues, ridiculed as a quack by the scientific establishment, Michael Behe continues to challenge the traditional theory of how the world came to be.

For more than a decade, the tenured Lehigh University biochemistry professor and author has been one of the nation's leading proponents of intelligent design, a movement trying to alter how Darwin's theory of evolution is taught in school.

This week, Behe will testify in a federal courtroom in Harrisburg in a landmark case about whether students in a Pennsylvania classroom should be required to hear a statement before their evolution classes that says Darwin's theory is not a fact.

"The fact that most biology texts act more as cheerleaders for Darwin's theory rather than trying to develop the critical faculties of their students shows the need, I think, for such statements," Behe said.

In papers, speeches and a 1996 best-selling book called "Darwin's Black Box," Behe argues that Darwinian evolution cannot fully explain the biological complexities of life, suggesting the work of an intelligent force.

His life on the academic fringes can be lonely. Critics say the concept is nothing more than biblical creationism in disguise. He long ago stopped applying for grants and trying to get his work published in mainstream scientific journals. In August, his department posted a Web statement saying the concept is not scientific.

"For us, Dr. Behe's position is simply not science. It is not grounded in science and should not be treated as science," said Neal Simon, the biology department chairman.

Behe said he was a believer in Darwin when he joined Lehigh in 1985, but became a skeptic after reading Michael Denton's book "Evolution: A Theory in Crisis."

Behe's big idea, published in "Darwin's Black Box" and the one that catapulted him to academic fame, is irreducible complexity. It is the notion that certain biochemical systems are incapable of having evolved in Darwinian fashion because they require all of their parts working simultaneously.

Behe uses a mousetrap to illustrate the concept. Take away any of its parts - platform, spring, hammer, catch - and the mousetrap can't catch mice.

"Intelligent design becomes apparent when you see a system that has a number of parts and you see the parts are interacting to perform a function," he said.

The book "put the positive case for design on the map in a way that some of the (previous intelligent design) work had not done," said Steven Meyer, director of the Center for Science and Culture at the Discovery Institute [http://www.discovery.org]. Most of academia panned it.

Eugenie Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education [ http://www.ncseweb.org], said that he believes Behe thought he discovered something astonishing. "But no one is using irreducible complexity as a research strategy, and with very good reason ... because it's completely fruitless," he said.

Behe finds community in a Web group that he says includes like-minded faculty from other universities. Most keep their views to themselves, Behe said, because "it's dangerous to your career to be identified as an ID proponent."

He earned tenure at Lehigh before becoming a proponent, which lets him express his views without the threat of losing his job.

"Because of the immense publicity that's mushroomed around this issue in the past six months, more people are getting emotional about the topic," Behe said. "And it's generally not on my side."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: crevolist; dover; evolution
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To: WildTurkey
Then anyone that leaps to the conclusion that they were sexual beforehand is just making something up, right?

No. Someone who leaps to the conclusion that they actually had realtions is making something up. However, it is clear in the text that they were capable of having relations.

261 posted on 10/16/2005 7:23:11 PM PDT by curiosity (Cronyism is not conservative)
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To: cornelis

If you're saying people are anteriors, we're in complete agreement.


262 posted on 10/16/2005 7:23:24 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Gumlegs

The most evil theory in the world of science is QM. It has everything -- true randomness, uncaused causes, the works. Good thing the folks at DI haven't heard of it.


263 posted on 10/16/2005 7:24:01 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: cornelis
If you're saying people are anteriors, we're in complete agreement.

No, we're not either. I think people are mostly posteriors.

264 posted on 10/16/2005 7:24:12 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: PetroniusMaximus
"It's not nonsense - look at my other posts for reference."

I've seen that crap before. It's still nonsense. Hitler was a creationist.

"You can know a tree by it's fruit."

Logical fallacy. Your are arguing from the consequences. That is not evidence against the scientific theory.

"Slavery is a complex issue historically in that some slaves had more money, authority and power then most free men. Some slaves were the tutors of kings. American slavery was an abomination."

The creationist was insisting that slavery isn't a moral issue. That what a government puts into law is ok. What was the response of the other creationists on the thread? Crickets chirping. Or attempts (like yours) to say that slavery wasn't really so bad back then. It's a very telling response you gave.
265 posted on 10/16/2005 7:24:48 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Matchett-PI
Does your mommy know you're playing on the computer?

She's dead, but thanks for asking.

266 posted on 10/16/2005 7:25:32 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: WildTurkey
["Science" will never accept the resurrection - the central fact of the Christian faith is in direct contradiction to the scientific mindset.]

If science were to show how resurrection were possible, you would be jumping up and down on the side of science, no?

Actually, science already *has* shown that. There are a ton of documented cases of people, even in this day and age, who were thought dead but had that "fact" improperly verified (instead, they were deeply unconscious due to injury or other factor) who then subsequently "rose from the dead" after several days, much to the shock of their mourners.

And needless to say, this was likely much more common in the days a couple thousand years ago, before stethoscopes, EEG machines, basal thermometers, etc.

Plus, people are routinely "raised from the dead" in hospitals on a daily basis, via CPR, defibrillator, and so on.

Finally, even if one accepts the story about finding Christ walking around a few days after he had been nailed to the cross (and as we know, the written accounts are second-hand at best), there is *no* evidence offerred that he had ever actually been properly declared dead in the first place, in a manner known today to be reliable.

267 posted on 10/16/2005 7:25:43 PM PDT by Ichneumon (Certified pedantic coxcomb)
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To: Gumlegs

*** that rabbits chew their cud***


Those Wascally Wabbits!
Skeptical Crud About Cud
James Patrick Holding
http://www.tektonics.org/af/cudchewers.html


Do rabbits chew their cud?
The Bible beats the sceptics (again) …
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i4/rabbits.asp


268 posted on 10/16/2005 7:25:51 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
American slavery was an abomination.

I so glad your moral compass has more that one needle.

269 posted on 10/16/2005 7:26:00 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: WildTurkey
Ah, the so if it isn't in the Bible, we are free to assume that it probably happened

No. We simply don't know whether it happened, and we should leave it at that.

270 posted on 10/16/2005 7:26:03 PM PDT by curiosity (Cronyism is not conservative)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
When God created Adam, He create a fully formed, mature male human - not an embryo. Would it be any surprise that He created the universe in a mature state?

How do you know? The Bible doesn't say He created a fully formed, mature human! You must be thinking about the movie, not the Bible.

271 posted on 10/16/2005 7:26:57 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman; Ichneumon
"Don't you know, only the *specialists* can ever know what the Bible says, and the rest of us better just shut up and accept it. No matter how stupid the *specialist's* interpretations. As far as I can tell, the only specialty that Matchett-PI has mastered is the art of the ad hominem and making up false quotes and attributing them to evolutionists." - CarolinaGuitarman

Sorry, but these are the facts:

"...Whenever you run across any person who criticizes the Bible, claims findings of contradiction or error -- they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. ... Here's why:

It doesn't take very long to realize that a thorough understanding of the Bible -- and this would actually apply to any complex work from any culture -- requires specialized knowledge, and a broad range of specialized knowledge in a variety of fields.

Obviously the vast majority of believers spend their entire lives doing little more than reading the Bible in English (or whatever native tongue) and importing into its words whatever ideas they derive from their own experiences. This process is very often one of "decontextualizing" -- what I have here called "reading it like it was written yesterday and for you personally." Of course if the church as a whole is locked into this mentality, you may well suspect that critics (whether Skeptics or other) and those in alternate faiths are no better off.

Let's anticipate and toss off the obvious objection: "Why did God make the Bible so hard to understand, then?" It isn't -- none of this keeps a person from grasping the message of the Bible to the extent required to be saved; where the line is to be drawn is upon those who gratuitously assume that such base knowledge allows them to be competent critics of the text, and make that assumption in absolute ignorance of their own lack of knowledge -- what I have elsewhere spoken of in terms of being "unskilled and unaware of it."

And is my observation to this effect justified? Well, ask yourself this question after considering what various fields of knowledge a complete and thorough (not to say sufficient for intelligent discourse, though few even reach that pinnacle, especially in the critical realm) study of the Bible requires: [snip]

Continue here.

272 posted on 10/16/2005 7:27:23 PM PDT by Matchett-PI ( "History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid." -- Dwight Eisenhower)
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To: Gumlegs

***Which one gave rise to the Inquisition?***

The lie that the Roman Catholic Church rightly inherited imperial powers.

And the lie that Jesus is OK with killing those who disagree with you.


273 posted on 10/16/2005 7:28:07 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: curiosity
No. We simply don't know whether it happened, and we should leave it at that.

Then don't imply that Adam and Eve had sex for pleasure before the fall when there is nothing there to base it on and everything in the Bible implies they did not.

274 posted on 10/16/2005 7:28:17 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: WildTurkey
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Actually, that text proves the opposite. God said he'd increase her sorrow in conception and childbearing. That implies she already was capable of conceiving.

The second half simply says that Adam will have authority over her that he did not have before.

275 posted on 10/16/2005 7:28:31 PM PDT by curiosity (Cronyism is not conservative)
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To: Ichneumon
...there is *no* evidence offerred that he had ever actually been properly declared dead in the first place, in a manner known today to be reliable.

There isn't even such a claim made.

276 posted on 10/16/2005 7:28:49 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
***Which one gave rise to the Inquisition?***

The lie that the Roman Catholic Church rightly inherited imperial powers.

And the lie that Jesus is OK with killing those who disagree with you.

And the lie that it is OK to lie about evolution ...

277 posted on 10/16/2005 7:29:51 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: Gumlegs
"Does your [fill in the blank] know you're playing on the computer?"
278 posted on 10/16/2005 7:30:05 PM PDT by Matchett-PI ( "History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid." -- Dwight Eisenhower)
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To: WildTurkey
Then don't imply that Adam and Eve had sex for pleasure before the fall when there is nothing there to base it on and everything in the Bible implies they did not.

I never implied such a thing, and the Bible implies nothing either way. It clearly indicates, however, that they had the capability of having sex before the Fall. Whether or not they did is simply unknown.

279 posted on 10/16/2005 7:30:21 PM PDT by curiosity (Cronyism is not conservative)
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To: PetroniusMaximus

Yes. Read them. Nice try. Why would God deliberately mislead his chosen people. The words in the Bible are His words, right? God couldn't figure out a word for "cud"?


280 posted on 10/16/2005 7:31:10 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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