TAX REFORM COMMISSION? YEAH ... RIGHT.

Neal's Nuze ^ | Oct. 12, 2005 | Neal Boortz

[pigdog]

TAX REFORM COMMISSION? YEAH ... RIGHT.

The president's so-called tax reform commission telegraphed its intentions several months ago when members stated that they were not going to recommend a full reform of our federal tax system, rather they were going to recommend some incremental reforms. The The FairTax Book hit the book stores and debuted at No. 1 on the New York Times Bestseller's list. Politicians and other Beltway denizens told co-author Congressman John Linder that the success of The FairTax Book was a certain indication that the people of this country were in the mood for wholesale reform. Who knew?

Now we're starting to get an indication of what the tax reform commission is going to recommend. It's very simple. Tax increases, not tax reform.

[pigdog]

Takes one to know one ...

Your statements was "... all deductions ..." were eliminated. That is clearly untrue. Trying to but the Genie back in the bottle by trying to redefine what you said is merely another of your little lies.

Your ignorance is what is palpable - as well as your dishonesty.

[pigdog]

Read Nightie's post being responded to where he said all deductions were being eliminated. That's a lie.

Your attempts to back him up are certainly misguided - but that's to be expected from you I suppose. You are both grossly incorrect - do you pretend that's an accident???

[Your Nightmare]

You are the biggest joke on FR. The Flat Tax is designed to tax all consumption just once. A business can "deduct" what is taxed on the the individual side. An individual only has a standard deduction. To suggest that this is even related to the current system is disingenuous at best.

[pigdog]

Sorry, Nightie, but you and Looie qualify as much bigger jokes due to your unremitting lack of presenting any alternative (real) tax plans and doing nothing but attacking the FairTax and its supporters.

That makes you both out to be a pair of dufuses (dufusae??? ... dufus [collective noun]??? dufusoid group???)

[pigdog]

A "deduction" is a "deduction" dum-dum - and that's what you claimed (incorrectly) was done away with.

[Your Nightmare]

The pigdogmatist strikes again! The FairTax MUST win!!! Logic and reason be damned!

[pigdog]

Talk about "logic" (or lack thereof) - you're the one who is trying to claim deductions are not deductions in s1099.

That's about as devoid of logic as they come, Nightie.

[Your Nightmare]

Talk about "logic" (or lack thereof) - you're the one who is trying to claim deductions are not deductions in s1099.

OK. Maybe your little mind will understand this: there are no deductions for individuals except a personal deduction. For businesses, the only "deductions" are business inputs for business activities, wages, and contributions to retirement plans. [Some might think that's just a way to determine profits - but not pigdogma!]

[pigdog]

Sorry, Nightie, but you don't get to change the statement to match what you now see was an error.

You were wrong - and you know it. Trying to weasel out won't help you at all. Why not just admit your error and move on? Typical SQL tactic - change something after the fact to "improve" upon what was said.

[hripka]

The public, having passed the bill, is certainly not going to sit idly by to watch being raised by congregational manipulation - and why should they since they can now clearly see that this is the game afoot - which presently is not at all apparent to them since so much of the tax burden is either hidden or indirect from the view of a taxpayer. With the FairTax the tax burden is open, apparent, and directly painful.

That's very funny!!

The first think that will be manipulated will be the prebate. Even Boortz/Linder think that the Earned Income Tax Credit is bad, but then they go and propose a 'prebate'! That's Incredible. In order to make the 'FairTax' politically sellable, they add something very similar to our current mess. And they do this at the outset. Just Imagine when more people start begging Congress to start fiddling with the 'prebate' calculation. Why do you think that HALF of all personal income tax returns only account for 4% of income tax revenue. Because people cried poor, and Congress decided to play class warfare. Remember, there are more voters under $50,000 income/(or consumption) than there are above $200,000 income/consumption.

That is the real political dynamic. And I really doubt that that would change under a 'FairTax'.

P.S. I agree that the 'FairTax' burden would be "open, apparent, and directly painful." That is why I predict that MASSIVE evasion will take place. The only way around it would be a VAT, and we don't want that.

[hripka]

... and I did not say there were 450 refutations - merely that the points were well-refuted by the 450 following posts... and indeed they were.

What does that even mean?

And certainly I do not agree with your lists of "winners" and "losers" (though that was not the way you originally referred to those in your lists.

The title of the article was "Winners and Losers under the 'FairTax' " and the first list was labled: "List of those who would benefit under the 'FairTax' plan:"

Which one of "those who would benefit" do you disagree with?

[hripka]

You haven't answered the question.

Is the federal spending number wrong? Is the GDP number wrong? Is the consumer spending portion of GDP wrong? Which is it?

Are you telling me that the 'FairTax' rate doesn't solve the budget deficit?

[hripka]

Funny how 'FairTax' advocates claim great evasion under our current income tax, but say there won't be ANY evasion/smuggling when it comes to a 30% sales tax rate, PLUS the STATE sales tax.

[hripka]

The Top 1% pays 34.27%% of the income tax. The top 10% pays 65.84%. The Top HALF pays 96.54%

Source: http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/250.html

Yes the wealthy do pay.

Besides the income tax rates that we talk about are MARGINAL rates. The NRST is not marginal at all. The 30% is assessed on the sale. Other than the 'prebate' you pay 30%. P.S. I think that the Flat Tax is best.

[hripka]

One thing that the 'FairTaxers' have never addressed is my assertion that:

"Winner #9. Companies will start a Company Store for tax-free employee benefits"

That is just one of the winners under a 'FairTax'. What is a company expense? Are shoes? meals? There are MANY Loophole opportunites under a 'FairTax' and Congress hasn't even meddled with it yet!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1493038/posts

[lewislynn]

Sorry, Nightie, but you and Looie qualify as much bigger jokes due to your unremitting lack of presenting any alternative (real) tax plans and doing nothing but attacking the FairTax and its supporters

Exposing facts is only an "attack" in your mind. The facts, not the "attacks" are your problem.

The Fairtax is a non-starter and you ragtag, disjointed Fairtaxers only need look in the mirror to see the reason why.

[pigdog]

The EITC is nothing at all like the FairTax prebate. The EITC is a very complex scheme that actually raises the tax rate in some instances. The prebate OTOH is simple and based solely upon family size ... and is available to everyone.

Attempts to "manipulate" the prebate cannot succeed since the rate it is based upon is used throughout many of the the government's programs and any alteration would create havoc in far more than just the FairTax. It would also meet huge political resistance.

Any change in the FairTax rate would affect ALL taxpayers and not just some subset as present taxcodde tinkering normally does. ALL taxpayers. I doubt any would enjoy having their tax rate raised.

As for MASSIVE evasion - that's what we now have with the present tax system. The entire illegal income segment is evading the income tax and yet all the Status Quo fans such as yourself are quick to ignore this fact. There is no evidence at all that there would even be as great an evasion with the FairTax as the non-compliance under the income tax, in fact. That amounts to 20-25% of the income tax revenue now collected (and does not count avoidance, other evasion, or illegal income) and there are no studies that show anything like that non-compliance level of evasion with the FairTax let alone the truly massive amount now evaded (but not mentioned) with the illegal economy.

[pigdog]

With most of them as they are ill-informed and not made with much of an understanding of how the FairTax actually operates.

Go read the rest of the thread and find out.

[kgrif_Salinas]

It is a tax increase if you live in a high cost location and have a big mortgage. A flat tax or sales tax applies equally to everyone. Reducing the interest deduction hits folks in California and New York hardest, but really doesn't affect folks in low cost areas.

[pigdog]

You greatly misstate what is said when you make the claim

"... there won't be ANY evasion/smuggling when it comes to a 30% sales tax rate, PLUS the STATE sales tax ..."

None of the FairTax supporters I know have ever said there won't to ANY evasion/smuggling, etc. under the FairTax. Ifn fact they have said just the opposite since evasion will always be around. The amount of evasion, etc., though, is the real issue since no one has been able to present any definitive information about smuggling for example and with the illegal economy (illegal aliens, drug dealers, etc.) the amount of money evading the income tax right now is truly huge - far larger than even the most wild-eyed anti-FairTax attacker could ever imagine..