Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Did feathered dinosaurs exist?
EurekAlert (AAAS) ^ | 10 October 2005 | David Greenberg

Posted on 10/10/2005 3:58:29 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

Biologists examining evidence for the claim that birds evolved from dinosaurs have reached some surprising new conclusions. However, they caution that "the problem of avian origins is far from being resolved." Their analysis is published online October 10, 2005 in the Journal of Morphology, published by John Wiley & Sons, Inc. and available via Wiley InterScience (www.interscience.wiley.com/journal/morphology).

Dinosaurs have long captured the imagination while their relationships have eluded full explanation. Innovative research and a comprehensive consideration of the old can also inspire new interpretations, as researchers recently found when examining the evidence supporting the current theory about feather origins and the relationships of birds and dinosaurs.

All experts agree that birds are related to theropod dinosaurs; however, debate has raged on over whether today's winged creatures are derived directly from advanced theropods, or from an earlier shared ancestor. The current theory supports direct derivation, but recent fossil discoveries in China have led to new questions about the claim. The Chinese discoverers reported finding all stages of feather evolution and ancestral birds, even though the deposits are at least 25 million years younger than those containing the earliest known bird Archaeopteryx.

Researchers, led by Alan Feduccia of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, considered the new findings in the context of the existing literature and furthered the knowledge base with additional experiments. Theagarten Lingham-Soliar of the University of KwaZulu-Natal in South Africa examined the skin of modern reptiles, the effects of decomposition on skin, and the fossil evidence relating to alleged feather progenitors (protofeathers). Richard Hinchliffe of the University College of Wales also examined evidence relating to the tridactyl hand, which is composed of digits 1-2-3 in dinosaurs, the most critical characteristic linking birds to derived theropods.

Feduccia, Lingham-Soliar and Hinchliffe found no evidence for the existence of protofeathers on dinosaurs and no evidence in support of the morphogenesis of the feather from putative filamentous protofeathers. They suggest that 'protofeathers' described on fossil findings "are probably the remains of collagenous fiber 'meshworks' that reinforced the dinosaur integument." Based on their examination of fossilized remains of dinosaurs with no relationship to birds, they suggest that decomposition of skin can lead to patterns resembling feathers.

Birds have been thought to be related to theropod dinosaurs because both groups have a hand reduced to three digits. Theropods are known from fossil evidence to exhibit a hand with digits 1-2-3, the thumb and next two digits. However, the researchers found that the vast majority of evidence supports a 2-3-4 digit identity for bird wings. The bird hand "appears different from that in theropod dinosaurs," they say, and casts doubt upon the theropod derivation hypothesis. Finally, they discuss the significance of the Chinese discoveries with respect to bird origin and flight.

The authors emphasize that the totality of evidence from various branches of science must be included if we are ever to solve the mystery of bird origins and the origin of avian flight. From their careful examination of the available evidence they offer an interim attempt to define morphologically the most salient features of Aves: "Birds are mesotarsal bipedal archosaurs with pennaceous feathers, and a tridactyl avian hand composed of digits 2-3-4."

It is too early to abandon debate on the origin of birds, the authors say. However, mounting evidence suggests that "a possible solution to the disparate data is that Aves plus birdlike maniraptoran theropods (e.g., microraptors and others) may be a separate clade, distinctive from the main lineage of Theropoda, a remnant of early avian radiation, exhibiting all stages of flight and flightlessness."


Article: "Do Featured Dinosaurs Exist?: Testing the Hypothesis on Neontological and Paleontological Evidence," by Alan Feduccia, Theagarten Lingham-Soliar, and J. Richard Hinchliffe, Journal of Morphology, Published Online: October 10, 2005 (DOI: 10.1002/jmor.10382).


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: birds; crevolist; dinosaurs; godsgravesglyphs
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-91 next last
To: Sacajaweau

Good one.


41 posted on 10/10/2005 7:40:34 AM PDT by null and void (Bringing Faith to the Doubtful, and Doubt to the Faithful)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: furball4paws

Well, you apparently did or you wouldn't be responding to me.


42 posted on 10/10/2005 7:43:25 AM PDT by mlc9852
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
>How do I get invited to one of THOSE parties?



Ostrich feathers are
a secret symbol of the
Creation elite!

43 posted on 10/10/2005 7:43:41 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852

empty


44 posted on 10/10/2005 7:45:51 AM PDT by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: furball4paws

I could respond in kind but that would make us both look childish.


45 posted on 10/10/2005 7:47:47 AM PDT by mlc9852
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: theFIRMbss
Ostrich, yes. The symbolism is obvious. ;)
46 posted on 10/10/2005 8:05:18 AM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro

If your gun jams you don't need birth control.


47 posted on 10/10/2005 8:11:16 AM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
I saw a RoadRunner bird yesterday at close range. Those things look for all the world like you'd think a theropod dino would. Even has a nice little crown on its head like some dinos. They even *move* like you'd think a dino would.

Course I haven't really studied this stuff, so I'm probably wrong somewhere. It is interesting though.

48 posted on 10/10/2005 8:13:31 AM PDT by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

The CrevoSci Archive
Just one of the many services of Darwin Central
"The Conspiracy that Cares"

CrevoSci threads for the past week:

  1. 2005-10-10 Did feathered dinosaurs exist?
  2. 2005-10-10 Intelligent design's big ambitions - Advocates want much more than textbooks.
  3. 2005-10-09 Evolution of faith
  4. 2005-10-09 Gov. Bush [Florida] oddly evasive on evolution
  5. 2005-10-09 Putting Relativity To The Test, NASA's Gravity Probe B To Reveale If Einstein Was Right
  6. 2005-10-08 Famed author takes on Kansas: Rushdie bemoans role of religion in public life
  7. 2005-10-07 Descent of Man in Dover (Why acceptance of ID not inevitable.)
  8. 2005-10-07 Discovery Institute's “Wedge Document” How Darwinist Paranoia Fueled an Urban Legend
  9. 2005-10-07 Dover, PA Evolution Trial [daily thread for 07 Oct]
  10. 2005-10-07 Evolution and intelligent design Life is a cup of tea
  11. 2005-10-07 Let 'intelligent design' and science rumble
  12. 2005-10-07 The Las Cruces Fossil Human Footprints
  13. 2005-10-07 The Map that Changed the World [in 1815]
  14. 2005-10-07 University of Idaho Bans All Alternatives to Evolution
  15. 2005-10-07 Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
  16. 2005-10-06 Faith, Science and the Persecution of Richard Sternberg
  17. 2005-10-06 Scientist defends Big Bang and God
  18. 2005-10-06 Seeing Creation and Evolution in Grand Canyon (quote below is the most significant item)
  19. 2005-10-06 The Mouth of the South Side (Carl Everett on Gays, Evolution, Bush and Kanye West)
  20. 2005-10-06 U of I president:teach only evolution in {University}science classes (Connection to PA court fight)
  21. 2005-10-06 Witness: 'Design' Replaced 'Creation'
  22. 2005-10-06 Witness: Movement's roots in creationism (Dover trial 10/6/05)
  23. 2005-10-05 Professor, teachers to testify in intelligent-design trial [Dover, PA, 05 Oct]
  24. 2005-10-05 Supernova Storm Wiped Out Mammoths?
  25. 2005-10-05 The Nobel Prize in Chemistry 2005 goes to Yves Chauvin, Robert H. Grubbs and Richard R. Schrock
  26. 2005-10-04 A space station view on giant lightning (May play role in global warming!)
  27. 2005-10-04 Ancient Peruvians Loved Their Spuds
  28. 2005-10-04 "Cardinal backs evolution and ""intelligent design"""
  29. 2005-10-04 Potatoes came from Peru, US study finds
  30. 2005-10-04 Space Scientists Seek Sprites, Elves and Jets
  31. 2005-10-04 Spider fooled into sex by drop-dead male
  32. 2005-10-04 The Bottom Line: Darwinism Promotes Social Disintegration
  33. 2005-10-04 The Nobel Prize in Physics 2005 is awarded to Roy J. Glauber, John L. Hall and Theodor W. Hänsch

CrevoSci Warrior Freepdays for the month of October:
 

2003-10-09 antiRepublicrat
2004-10-10 Antonello
1998-10-18 AZLiberty
1999-10-14 blam
2000-10-19 cogitator
2001-10-21 Coyoteman
2004-10-26 curiosity
1998-10-29 Dataman
2000-10-29 dila813
2005-10-07 Dinobot
2001-10-14 dread78645
1998-10-03 Elsie
1998-10-17 f.Christian
2002-10-08 FairOpinion
2001-10-26 Genesis defender
2000-10-09 Gil4
2000-10-08 guitarist
2004-10-10 joeclarke
1998-10-03 js1138
2001-10-24 k2blader
2000-10-08 LibWhacker
2002-10-25 m1-lightning
2001-10-10 Michael_Michaelangelo
2001-10-09 Mother Abigail
2004-10-25 MRMEAN
2004-10-03 Nicholas Conradin
1999-10-28 PatrickHenry
1998-10-01 Physicist
1998-10-25 plain talk
1998-10-12 Restorer
2005-10-04 ret_medic
2001-10-23 RightWingNilla
2004-10-09 snarks_when_bored
1998-10-04 Southack
2002-10-22 sumocide
2004-10-21 WildHorseCrash
2001-10-23 yankeedame
2002-10-20 Z in Oregon

In Memoriam
Fallen CrevoSci Warriors:


ALS
Area Freeper
Aric2000
Askel5
bluepistolero
churchillbuff
ConservababeJen
DittoJed2
dob
Ed Current
f.Christian
followerofchrist
general_re
goodseedhomeschool
gopwinsin04
gore3000
Jedigirl
JesseShurun
Kevin Curry
kharaku
Le-Roy
Marathon
medved
metacognative
Modernman
NoKinToMonkeys
Ogmios
peg the prophet
Phaedrus
Phoroneus
pickemuphere
ret_medic
RickyJ
SeaLion
Selkie
Shubi
Tomax
tpaine
WaveThatFlag
xm177e2


Bring back Modernman and SeaLion!

49 posted on 10/10/2005 8:26:22 AM PDT by Junior (From now on, I'll stick to science, and leave the hunting alien mutants to the experts!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: narby
But does it go "Meep! Meep!"??
50 posted on 10/10/2005 8:36:17 AM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: js1138
[Sputters!] The idea of the gag is that the call is effective by simulating the ruttish grunt of the cow in oestrus... Works for me, I know that.
51 posted on 10/10/2005 8:38:31 AM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
The joke has potential, but it seems to suffer from conceptual problems.
52 posted on 10/10/2005 8:46:31 AM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: js1138
OK, how about, "On this day in history, Hannibal of Carthage crossed the Alps with elephants...








... and got mountains that never forget."

53 posted on 10/10/2005 8:49:02 AM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry

Of course they exist. I saw Elton John on TV just recently!


54 posted on 10/10/2005 8:50:11 AM PDT by Republic of Texas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: R.W.Ratikal
TK's thrive lurking under bridges in the fetid swamps of Massachusetts waiting for prey to fall into the water...TKs can also be found at watering holes generation after generation seemingly without end.

I sure wish, Tedrex the Hut, would've found Helen Thomas under that bridge.

55 posted on 10/10/2005 8:55:04 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :^)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro

I can't top that.


56 posted on 10/10/2005 8:59:56 AM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: Proud_texan

Yes, crocodilians are the closest living relatives of today's birds. Crocodiles evolved directly from thecodont ancestors, as did dinosaurs. The dispute over avian evolution stems over whether birds evolved directly from dinosaurs, or if they simply share a common thecodont ancestor.


57 posted on 10/10/2005 9:03:36 AM PDT by RightWingAtheist (Free the Crevo Three!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
Meep?


58 posted on 10/10/2005 9:06:27 AM PDT by RightWingAtheist (Free the Crevo Three!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Junior

Modernman is gone? Damn. What happened?


59 posted on 10/10/2005 9:12:40 AM PDT by Stone Mountain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: js1138
And did you catch the naughty double-entendre in "Works for me, I know that?" So-fisty-cated!!
60 posted on 10/10/2005 9:13:41 AM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-91 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson