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Landowners must yield to ballpark
The Washington Times ^ | 10-6-05 | Tim Lemke

Posted on 10/06/2005 11:17:56 AM PDT by JZelle

The District will begin using eminent domain to acquire parcels of land at the site of the Washington Nationals' ballpark by the end of this month, after unsuccessful negotiations with nearly half of the landowners. City officials said they expect to file court documents to take over at least some of the 21-acre site in the coming weeks and have $97 million set aside to buy the properties and help landowners relocate. The city made offers to all 23 landowners on the site last month but received no response from 10. "We think there are some that we'll have good-faith negotiations with," said Steve Green, director of development in the office of the Deputy Mayor for Planning and Economic Development. "There are some we haven't heard from at all."

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: americaspasttime; awc; baseball; eminentdomain; fedexfield; majorleaguebaseball; mlb; scotus; supremecourt; washingtondc; washingtonnationals
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At least when they're done, they'll be a ball team's worth of people who earn an honest living in DC.


61 posted on 10/06/2005 10:19:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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To: AmishDude

A reasonable deal is whatever the SELLER is willing to accept, not what the buyer wants to pay...unless you don't mind me seizing your property for say....$15.00?


62 posted on 10/06/2005 10:30:03 PM PDT by jess35
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To: jess35; All

Let me end this right here. As a disaffected Orioles fan, I hereby grant Camden Yards in Baltimore to the Washington Nationals! ;)


63 posted on 10/07/2005 6:07:30 AM PDT by JZelle
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To: freeeee
I guess we are both pessimistic in different ways.

I hope neither one of us is correct.

64 posted on 10/07/2005 7:33:00 AM PDT by Protagoras (Call it what it is, partial delivery murder.)
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To: AmishDude

Sorry 'bout that. You're quite right, it is in poor taste to not ping you.


65 posted on 10/07/2005 7:43:59 AM PDT by freeeee ("Owning" property in the US just means you have one less landlord.)
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To: AmishDude
Ballparks (presumably because they are publicly owned) are considered public use and have been since before Kelo.

They aren't considered that by any normal logical person, but they are considered that by politicians and their crime partners, the Baseball owners.

And YOU might live somewhere that government owns the ball park, but in Chicago, both teams play in parks that are PRIVATELY owned.

The football team here plays in a government owned stadium, which of course is a different philosophical problem.

As to telling you what you are for, I can only go by what you post. You post in favor, you are in favor. It's simple. Saying you don't like something while supporting it is a non starter.

66 posted on 10/07/2005 7:47:46 AM PDT by Protagoras (Call it what it is, partial delivery murder.)
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To: Protagoras
Neat trick. Governments have been seizing private land to build stadiums for decades, and when some points that out to you, you argue they are in favor of private developers seizing private land, in the fashion of Kelo.
67 posted on 10/07/2005 7:54:27 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Neat trick. Governments have been seizing private land to build stadiums for decades, and when some points that out to you, you argue they are in favor of private developers seizing private land, in the fashion of Kelo.

Neat trick. You pretend that seizing private property for the purpose of transferring ownership to a different private party is not the same as Kelo just because they have been committing that crime for decades.

Seizing private property for a private real estate development and seizing it for a private business of a different kind are not different in any meaningful way.

Develop it for homes, or develop it for a baseball park. Same thing.

You might be confusing government seizing the property so that they (the government) can build a stadium with seizing it so someone else (a private business) can build a stadium. If so, I can see why yo think it's a trick.

I can assure you, the only people who have been tricked are those who think it's OK for the government to suspend property rights when it suits their purposes.

68 posted on 10/07/2005 8:07:06 AM PDT by Protagoras (Call it what it is, partial delivery murder.)
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To: Protagoras

Is the "District" mentioned in the article above public or private? Does its stock trade on the NYSE?


69 posted on 10/07/2005 8:33:47 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Government takings of private property for the benefit of other private parties has always been wrong, and it used to be unconstitutional.

It is certainly immoral. Your milage may differ.

70 posted on 10/07/2005 8:45:20 AM PDT by Protagoras (Call it what it is, partial delivery murder.)
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To: jess35
A reasonable deal is whatever the SELLER is willing to accept

You are correct, but we are talking about market price. If the gallery owner doesn't take the $1.8 million, then she is saying that she will pass up $1.8 million to keep it, which makes it worth at least $1.8 million. You can offer me $15 for my property, but my not taking it only makes the property worth at least $15.

71 posted on 10/07/2005 9:12:18 AM PDT by AmishDude (Proud inventor of the term "Patsies". Please make out all royalty checks to "AmishDude".)
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To: Wolfie

. . . or Houston (3 times)


72 posted on 10/07/2005 9:18:36 AM PDT by texgal (end no-fault divorce laws return DUE PROCESS & EQUAL PROTECTION to ALL citizens))
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To: Protagoras
I am opposed to lies and distortions. This was not because of Kelo. Period. If you don't like eminent domain being used for ballparks, you're welcome to oppose it. But it isn't because of the Kelo decision.

But consider why someone might consider it public use. Certainly city hall is public use. Certainly the expansion of a highway is public use. What about a park? You know, with benches and trees and grass and such. That's public use, right? What about a zoo? They'll probably charge admission. Is that public use? Well, if that's public use, what about a stadium? The city will own it. They'll have public events there. It should be noted that this is a very big reason why stadiums are not more often privately-owned. It's much harder for the private owner to sieze land. So, for those who lament the proliferation of public arenas, there you go.

There are also ways around eminent domain, of course. Offer money, if there are hold-outs, build around them and make the property worthless.

Build the stadium itself on non-eminent domain land and build the public parking on the seized land. The parking can be wholly independent of stadium events.

There's a romantic notion of saving one's precious home (or art gallery, I guess) against the bulldozer, but most of the time, it's just greed. The problem with New London is that they weren't Machiavellian enough. If you're subtle, you can take all the land without anyone putting up a fight.

Oh, and it should be noted, that without eminent domain, in order to get large tracts of contiguous land (for stuff like stadia, not for a big box store), you have to buy things like farms. So, for anyone who laments the dwindling farmland, it's worth keeping in mind.

Every action has a consequence.

73 posted on 10/07/2005 9:29:56 AM PDT by AmishDude (Proud inventor of the term "Patsies". Please make out all royalty checks to "AmishDude".)
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To: JZelle

I hate these eminent domain rulings and am a big property rights guy, but I have to confess it's tough for me to dredge up a whole lot of sympathy for the gay nightclubs, bathhouses, and porno dealers down there in that area. This won't be a loss for the city by any stretch.


74 posted on 10/07/2005 9:39:42 AM PDT by jpl
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To: AmishDude
Some value property rights. Other make excuses and look for "work arounds".

The zoos in my town are private. The ball parks are private. One of them was built on partially stolen land.

Parks should be built on property acquired legally and ethically.

Governments should not be in business. Governments exist to defend the rights of the citizens. Nothing more.

What you call greed is nothing more than your opinion of the motives of rightful property owners. Motives, of course, are irrelevant.

Kelo was an abomination to freedom loving people. The small mischief they have caused so far is just the beginning. Governments have been abusing property owners ala Kelo for a long time, but this time the court gave them the stamp of approval.

The misuse of government power in the story above may or may not be technically a Kelo situation, the story is ambiguous in some ways. The principle however is the same.

Property taken for the benefit of a third party or the government themselves via increased tax revenues is wrong. It is immoral. Your mileage may vary.

75 posted on 10/07/2005 9:48:25 AM PDT by Protagoras (Call it what it is, partial delivery murder.)
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To: freeeee
That's what it means to own something....

Correction....that's what it use to mean when you owned soemthing....
76 posted on 10/07/2005 9:51:14 AM PDT by PigRigger (Send donations to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org)
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To: JZelle
This whole DC baseball thing is FUBAR. They are condemning properties and proceeding with a publicly funded stadium before they even know who is going to own the team or if that ownership group might have the wherewithal to build the stadium wuth its own money. FedEx Field, where the Redskins play, was completely privately financed by former team owner Jack Kent Cooke.

What a boondoggle - some obscenely rich Washingtonians get to bid on this very valuable franchise knowing that they won't even have to pay a penny for the stadium. Nice work if you can get it!

77 posted on 10/07/2005 10:03:51 AM PDT by Dems_R_Losers (2,4,6,8 - a burka makes me look overweight!)
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To: Protagoras

Part of the point I was trying to make is that it's very difficult to avoid this when it comes down the pipe. My concern is "just compensation". Now, you apparently live in Chicago. In that case, the government will take land for private interests and the courts will say, "OK, and thanks for the bundles of cash, Mayor Daley." But in most other places, it's tougher.


78 posted on 10/07/2005 10:12:40 AM PDT by AmishDude (Proud inventor of the term "Patsies". Please make out all royalty checks to "AmishDude".)
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To: SunkenCiv
At least when they're done, they'll be a ball team's worth of people who earn an honest living in DC.

An assumption, which as they say "is not necessarily valid"... (Think the steroid scandal...)

the infowarrior

79 posted on 10/07/2005 10:31:40 AM PDT by infowarrior (TANSTAAFL)
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To: AmishDude
My concern is "just compensation".

I'll make one more point, "just compensation" is determined by a willing buyer and seller absent force, fraud or coercion in a free society. To the extent that it is not, the lives of people are diminished.

But in most other places, it's tougher.

Hopefully. But I fear the genie is out of the bottle.

80 posted on 10/07/2005 10:34:55 AM PDT by Protagoras (Call it what it is, partial delivery murder.)
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