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Scientist defends Big Bang and God
The Daily O' Collegian ^ | 10/5/05 | Micah Ownbey

Posted on 10/06/2005 6:36:03 AM PDT by Michael_Michaelangelo

Dr. Henry “Fritz” Schaefer, the Graham Perdue professor of Chemistry and the director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the University of Georgia, gave a presentation Tuesday night about the convergence of science and Christianity.

Schaefer is a five-time Nobel Prize nominee, according to The U.S. News and World Report. He is the sixth most-cited scientist in the world, and he is the author of more than 1,000 scientific publications.

He lectured on the Big Bang Theory, Stephen Hawking and God to a crowd of nearly 800 people at the Seretean Center Concert Hall.

(Excerpt) Read more at ocolly.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: bigbang; crevo; crevolist; god; intelligentdesign
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To: UCANSEE2
One of the problems for scientists and theologians is that some of the terminology is difficult to agree on.

Agreed. One of the things I think would help to reconcile the two would be a clear definition of how long a 'day' was before the fourth 'day'. Was it 24 hours? Or was it 24 million years?

61 posted on 10/06/2005 9:02:04 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (If you decide to kick the tiger in the ass...you'd better be prepared to deal with the teeth.)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

I enjoy reading and responding to these crevo threads.

Debate is one of the most imporant tools in gaining intelligence.

Too many get into 'wars' over this because they start off with the position that their 'beliefs' are 'fact' and their manner of faith is the only correct one, and that anyone who doesn't see things exactly the way they do, must be wrong.

Here's the only true fact. Most of what you believe, most of what you know, is absolutely WRONG.

Best thing to remember when debating or blindly arguing on a thread, is that both YOU and YOUR OPPONENT are likely DEAD WRONG.


62 posted on 10/06/2005 9:03:52 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (I jez calls it az I see it.)
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To: stuartcr
I understand at some level there is a certain absurdity to it. Do you agree?

Wolf
63 posted on 10/06/2005 9:04:22 AM PDT by RunningWolf (U.S. Army Veteran.....75-78)
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To: stuartcr; Alex Murphy
And that is why I do not believe in, nor have any use for, religions.

I find it's a very interesting subject to discuss.

It appears you do have a use for religion then: it provides you with an interesting topic of discussion. :)

64 posted on 10/06/2005 9:06:53 AM PDT by Frumanchu (Inveterate Pelagian by birth, Calvinist by grace.)
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To: Right Wing Professor
Pople= "Gaussian" and Kohn = "Density Functional Theory" if I recall correctly. But I don't recall specifically what Schaefer's big research area has been...

Could someone please post Fritz's CV so people can see he's a legit scientist?

RWP, who did you have in mind specifically for the next tier of quantum chemists (given they just included a French theoretician in this year's Chemistry Nobel)?

Full Disclosure: Eyring (transition state theory) was reportedly a devout Mormon, speaking of non-traditional religious beliefs coupled with science...

Cheers!

65 posted on 10/06/2005 9:12:39 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: thompsonsjkc; odoso; animoveritas; mercygrace; Laissez-faire capitalist; bellevuesbest; ...

Moral Absolutes Ping.

What! A noted, intelligent, worthy scientist who - [gasp!] believes in God. And that God created things, like the universe. Hmmm. Read thread at own risk.


Freepmail me if you want on/off this pinglist.


66 posted on 10/06/2005 9:12:53 AM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: grey_whiskers
Could someone please post Fritz's CV so people can see he's a legit scientist?

Henry F. Schaefer III was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan in 1944. He attended public schools in Syracuse (New York), Menlo Park (California), and Grand Rapids (Michigan), graduating from East Grand Rapids High School in 1962. He received his B.S. degree in chemical physics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (1966) and Ph.D. degree in chemical physics from Stanford University (1969). For 18 years (1969-1987) he served as a professor of chemistry at the University of California, Berkeley. During the 1979-1980 academic year he was also Wilfred T. Doherty Professor of Chemistry and inaugural Director of the Institute for Theoretical Chemistry at the University of Texas, Austin. Since 1987 Dr. Schaefer has been Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and Director of theCenter for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the University of Georgia. His other academic appointments include Professeur d'Echange at the University of Paris (1977), Gastprofessur at the Eidgenossische Technische Hochshule (ETH), Zurich (1994, 1995, 1997, 2000, 2002), and David P. Cr aig Visiting Professor at the Australian National University (1999). He is the author of more than 975 scientific publications, the majority appearing in the Journal of Chemical Physics or the Journal of the American Chemical Society.

Dr. Henry F. Schaefer III

67 posted on 10/06/2005 9:22:12 AM PDT by Michael_Michaelangelo (The best theory is not ipso facto a good theory. Lots of links on my homepage...)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Ahhh, I love the smell of Journal of Chemical Physics in the morning.

Although I still prefer the swimsuit issue of Chemical Abstracts. :-)

Cheers!

68 posted on 10/06/2005 9:25:18 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers
Could someone please post Fritz's CV so people can see he's a legit scientist

Not the publication list, please. Too much bandwidth:-)

RWP, who did you have in mind specifically for the next tier of quantum chemists (given they just included a French theoretician in this year's Chemistry Nobel)?

I'd put Ahrichs on the list, Michael Dewar, Karl Freed, Parinello...just off the top of my head.

And there are other very active areas of theory too. Martin Karplus has got to be up there for his MD work.

69 posted on 10/06/2005 9:27:20 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
[ Scientist defends Big Bang and God ]

Which God.?. The big bang is a Hindu mental figment.. In an almost endless array of convoluted cycles.. You know, the religion that proudly produced the caste system.. that one.. from an area where the Hindu and Muslim religions dominate..

Hindu and Muslim mind you.. My dog has more morality than the Hindu and Muslim religions have in their back hooves..

70 posted on 10/06/2005 9:29:52 AM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: Right Wing Professor
Fair 'nuff.

What's your opinion of Andy McCammon?

And you haven't nominated yourself, either ;-)

Cheers!

71 posted on 10/06/2005 9:30:27 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers
What's your opinion of Andy McCammon?

He's done some nice stuff. He's in the same area as Karplus, and he probably doesn't rank quite as high in most people's lists, being a good deal younger (wasn't he a Karplus student or postdoc?)

And you haven't nominated yourself, either ;-)

That's because I don't want to look like a complete twit.

72 posted on 10/06/2005 9:35:57 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: js1138
I notice no one seems offended by my remark. Remarkable.

If you really wanted to cause offense, you should have said something clever. Alas, you merely settled for trite and predictable.

73 posted on 10/06/2005 9:38:19 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: UCANSEE2

As you say, 'The word 'faith' has been difficult to delineate as it is often misused.', thus my question.

I don't really understand what the rest of your reply was about.


74 posted on 10/06/2005 9:41:52 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: RunningWolf

Yes


75 posted on 10/06/2005 9:47:53 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: Frumanchu

You're absolutely correct, I should have re-worded my response to say that the primary use I have for it, is for the purpose of discussion.


76 posted on 10/06/2005 9:50:56 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: mlc9852
"I will admit to not being a smart as many on here and I have learned a lot from others."


A sure sign of intelligence is the awareness of one's limitations and a willingness to learn from others.







"However, when the name-calling starts (you know who you are), I ignore them."


More should follow your lead in this matter.






"There is no reason we can't debate the issues without resorting to calling each other names. We should be above that."



I heartily endorse that notion.
77 posted on 10/06/2005 10:34:02 AM PDT by rob777
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To: shuckmaster

post #49

irony


78 posted on 10/06/2005 10:59:29 AM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: hosepipe

You say "which God"... and seem to argue that because we cannot know "which God"...and because there are some interpretations of "God" with which you disagree...that there is no God?

The Big Bang is compatible with a number of religions, not just Hinduism (one religion in which the current theories are a bit of a stretch, actually). Ditto with Islam.

The Big Bang, as a scientific theory, is not based on any religion. While some religious interpretations conflict with the Big Bang story of the universe, there are many other interpretations that do not.

This from Wikipedia (not a complete or reliable source, but food for thought here)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
The following is a list of various religious interpretations of the Big Bang theory:

A number of Christian churches, the Roman Catholic Church in particular, have accepted the Big Bang as a description of the origin of the universe, interpreting it to allow for a philosophical first cause. Pope Pius XII was an enthusiastic proponent of the Big Bang even before the theory was scientifically well established.

Some students of Kabbalah, deism and other non-anthropomorphic faiths concord with the Big Bang theory, for example connecting it with the theory of "divine retraction" (tzimtzum) as explained by the Jewish scholar Moses Maimonides.

Some modern Islamic scholars believe that the Qur'an parallels the Big Bang in its account of creation, described as follows: "Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one unit of creation, before We clove them asunder?" (Ch:21,Ver:30). The claim has also been made that the Qur'an describes an expanding universe: "The heaven, We have built it with power. And verily, We are expanding it." (Ch:51,Ver:47). Parallels with the Big Crunch and an oscillating universe have also been suggested: "On the day when We will roll up the heavens like the rolling up of the scroll for writings, as We originated the first creation, (so) We shall reproduce it; a promise (binding on Us); surely We will bring it about." (Ch:21,Ver:104).

Certain theistic branches of Hinduism, such as in Vaishnavism, conceive of a theory of creation with similarities to the theory of the Big Bang. The Hindu mythos, narrated for example in the third book of the Bhagavata Purana (primarily, chapters 10 and 26), describes a primordial state which bursts forth as the Great Vishnu glances over it, transforming into the active state of the sum-total of matter ("prakriti"). Other forms of Hinduism assert a universe without beginning or end.

Buddhism has a concept of a universe that has no creation event. The Big Bang, however, is not seen to be in conflict with this since there are ways to conceive an eternal universe within the paradigm. A number of popular Zen philosophers were intrigued, in particular, by the concept of the oscillating universe.


79 posted on 10/06/2005 11:10:04 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: silverleaf
[ You say "which God"... and seem to argue that because we cannot know "which God"...and because there are some interpretations of "God" with which you disagree...that there is no God? ]

No doubt you're wrong about a number of other thngs also..

80 posted on 10/06/2005 11:18:30 AM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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