Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

Times (UK) ^ | October 05, 2005 | Ruth Gledhill

[MeanWestTexan]

THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true. The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

[A CA Guy]

The only authentic hierarchy if the Catholic church is the Pope and at the Vatican. Where is the Vatican source for this story?

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

First you have to provide a definition for what it is to “exist.”

[billbears]

That's what the Church Fathers and scholars are for. To interpret and help us understand the scriptures

No, that's what the Holy Spirit is for. I don't need a Church Father or scholar to tell me what God has laid on my heart by reading the Scriptures and through the ministrations of the Holy Spirit. The Scriptures are easy enough to understand that I don't need someone to explain them to me.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

The Church has been saying this for a long time. For example:

"Since many, however, of those who profess to believe in Christ differ from each other, not only in small and trifling matters, but also on subjects of the highest importance, as, e.g., regarding God, or the Lord Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit; and not only regarding these, but also regarding others which are created existences, viz., the powers and the holy virtues; it seems on that account necessary first of all to fix a definite limit and to lay down an unmistakable rule regarding each one of these, and then to pass to the investigation of other points."

"For as we ceased to seek for truth (notwithstanding the professions of many among Greeks and Barbarians to make it known) among all who claimed it for erroneous opinions, after we had come to believe that Christ was the Son of God, and were persuaded that we must learn it from Himself; so, seeing there are many who think they hold the opinions of Christ, and yet some of these think differently from their predecessors, yet as the teaching of the Church, transmitted in orderly succession from the apostles, and remaining in the Churches to the present day, is still preserved, that alone is to be accepted as truth which differs in no respect from ecclesiastical and apostolical tradition. "

From Origen's, "De Principiis", 3rd century AD.

[Mulch]

There you go again. Anyway, to be honest, this is the first time I've ever posed the question to an atheist and quite frankly, I expected a little better response. I didn't think it would be so easy to knock the pins out from underneath the atheist stance.

[sgtyork]

But they happen to represent the larger teaching of the Catholic Church.

---

So were you being sarcastic when you made this comment?

[Publius6961]

I was one once, but even as a teenager I could recognize a church that was built on lies, deceit and falsehoods.

I can certainly grasp the poverty of spirit behind the choice of words and expression. Some extremes are more abvious than others.
My guess is that this level of anger can only be induced as a result of human aberrations condemned not exclusively by the religious universe.

At one extreme islam and fundamentalism; at the other angry perverts. Faith is simply the manifestation of the human ability to accept the reality of "goodness". It is assailed from both sides.

[Publius6961]

I don't think the Catholic Church believes in a word for word literal interpretation of the scriptures...certainly you don't get that from augustine, aquinas, francis, etc.

I certainly didn't get that sort of indoctrination from the Christian Brothers or the Jesuits.

Hyperbole is a necessary tool of charlatans.

[Publius6961]

There seem to be plenty of people here who still believe every word is literally true. It's a bit scary...

Not as many as you would have us believe. Catholics comprise a huge number of people who profess a religion and none of us believes that every word is literally true. Not in my lifetime.
The irony is that in order to feel liberated from the shackles of restraint implied by religion, the perverts need to identify and ridicule the minuscule number of fundamentalists that exist, and use them as a brush with which to paint and ridicule all Christians.

[voteconstitutionparty]

This is nothing new.

The Roman Catholic Church has never taught that every word of the Bible was to be taken literally.

[Publius6961]

The problem is Cicero, that all this is irrelevant. That's why it's called faith. No need to deal in absolutes, as if by some unknown mechanism you, or the imam, is imbued with the certainty of truth.

So long as it does no true evil, leave my faith alone, even without a need for absolutes, or for my opinion to prevail.

[Lijahsbubbe]

"The Catholic Church existed before the Bible"

I nominate this as FreeRepublic quote of the year.

[Im4LifeandLiberty]

Thank you for your question.
I did not say the documents were *written* by the Church; my statement was that the Church *gathered* the founding documents of Christianity and put them into one book, determining what was canonical and what was not. There were early "Christians" who relied heavily upon heretical Gnostic and Manicheistic writings which they believed to be Scripture, but these documents were not included in the Bible, for their teachings were theologically incorrect. You bolster my argument by mentioning a set of ancient documents that predate the Catholic Church: prior to the Church's compilation of the Bible from pre-existing documents, the writings floated around separately. There is a reason one refers to the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls rather than to "xyz pages of the Bible"--they were not found in a complete, canonical book of Scripture until the early Church developed this book. Yes, the Bible is inerrant revelation given directly from God, but the King James Version or whichever translation you prefer did not simply fall out of the sky.

[Thinkin' Gal]

"The Catholic Church existed before the Bible"<<<

I nominate this as FreeRepublic quote of the year.

Not to mention fuel for Jack Chick.

[Petronski]

Don't read too much into that, Leni.

Jack Chick will, but you shouldn't.

[phantomworker]

The Church has been saying this for a long time. For example:

"Since many, however, of those who profess to believe in Christ differ from each other, not only in small and trifling matters, but also on subjects of the highest importance, as, e.g., regarding God, or the Lord Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit; and not only regarding these, but also regarding others which are created existences, viz., the powers and the holy virtues; it seems on that account necessary first of all to fix a definite limit and to lay down an unmistakable rule regarding each one of these, and then to pass to the investigation of other points."

"For as we ceased to seek for truth (notwithstanding the professions of many among Greeks and Barbarians to make it known) among all who claimed it for erroneous opinions, after we had come to believe that Christ was the Son of God, and were persuaded that we must learn it from Himself; so, seeing there are many who think they hold the opinions of Christ, and yet some of these think differently from their predecessors, yet as the teaching of the Church, transmitted in orderly succession from the apostles, and remaining in the Churches to the present day, is still preserved, that alone is to be accepted as truth which differs in no respect from ecclesiastical and apostolical tradition. "

From Origen's, "De Principiis", 3rd century AD.

I'll buy that and I am a Lutheran, (that conservative religion derived from that radical Martin Luther) lol.

<1/1,000,000th%

I really like your name, <1/1,000,000th%

[Lijahsbubbe]

Jack Chick?

Need the 411 on that.

[SampleMan]

That's nuts the Catholic Church didn't exist before Moses, or the Kings or the prophets.

Correct, but neither did the Bible. I don't know what version you have, but there is this whole big section called the New Testament, which makes it the Bible, and the early church decided not only what would go into the new section, but also the old. Many letters were not included.