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Ground Shifted Beneath Levees
Yahoo News (Los Angeles Times) ^ | 10/01/05 | Ralph Vartabedian

Posted on 10/01/2005 10:07:15 AM PDT by blake6900

Edited on 10/10/2005 12:51:55 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

The rapid sinking of the Louisiana coast may have lowered New Orleans levees and contributed to their failure after Hurricane Katrina, resulting in the city's catastrophic flooding, engineers and other experts say.

Levees and storm walls may be as much as 2 feet lower than they were designed to be, both because elevation data were outdated when the levees were built and because the land has continued to sink, they say.


(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: hurricane; katrina; levees; neworleans
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Ivor L. van Heerden, deputy director of the Louisiana State University Hurricane Center, said he was concerned that serious design defects had contributed directly to the wall failures. He has called for an intensive independent investigation.

This "expert" was on Meet the Press last Sunday--the second of two visits--and basically laid the whole thing at the feet of the Bush Administration for cutting funds to the Army Corps of Engineers. Two days ago he was quoted in an NBC Nightly News story where Lisa Meyers reported the contractor--while upgrading one of the levees ten years ago--had told the Army COE the ground was not strong enough to support one of the now broken levees. This professor never mentioned it on MTP. Now he's calling for an independent investigation regarding New Orleans sinking yet he never mentioned that either.

This story conveniently leaves out the fact the Prof. van Heerden is also an expert in levees and I've seen his actual title reported elsewhere as "deputy director of the Louisiana State University Hurricane and Levee Center".

So, he started out on Meet the Press blaming Bush, came back on MTP blaming Bush, then gets questioned regarding reports of irregularities dealing with the levee upgrades ten years ago and now is calling for an "independent investigation" for something he's supposed to be an expert on yet never bothered to mention.

I think he did know all this and was more interested in tieing an albatross around Bush's neck. Now, he's playing dumb when his job requires him to know--or at least study to find out--this information. Did he know any of this or is he just another incompetent Louisiana boob like the governor and the mayor of New Orleans?

1 posted on 10/01/2005 10:07:15 AM PDT by blake6900
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To: blake6900
Levees and storm walls may be as much as 2 feet lower than they were designed to be, both because elevation data were outdated when the levees were built and because the land has continued to sink,

Waht about the explosives? They forgot to mention the explosives used to blow up the levees.

2 posted on 10/01/2005 10:09:31 AM PDT by ElkGroveDan (California bashers will be called out)
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To: blake6900

It was Karl Rove's landsinker machine.


3 posted on 10/01/2005 10:18:08 AM PDT by manic4organic (We won. Get over it.)
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To: ElkGroveDan

Yeah, Calypso says he has the evidence. The Motha Wheel told him so.


4 posted on 10/01/2005 10:18:45 AM PDT by BigFinn
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To: blake6900
"As levees have sunk, melting glaciers have lifted ocean levels globally, she added."

This is where I stopped reading!

5 posted on 10/01/2005 10:21:46 AM PDT by strongbow
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To: ElkGroveDan

"Levees and storm walls may be as much as 2 feet lower than they were designed to be, both because elevation data were outdated when the levees were built and because the land has continued to sink,"

Anyone want to buy some land in New Orleans? How much are we going to spend to rebuild it?


6 posted on 10/01/2005 10:22:11 AM PDT by popdonnelly
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To: blake6900
"As levees have sunk, melting glaciers have lifted ocean levels globally, she added. "

I stopped reading right there, this is all I needed to see to know her agenda on this subject. Her adding the 1/4" raise in ocean levels over the last 100 years compared to the 2' of settlement tells me she is an environmentalist pushing a global warming hype to the problem.

7 posted on 10/01/2005 10:26:03 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading since 2004)
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To: blake6900
All the more reason NOT to spend billions to rebuild in the 9th Ward (former cypress swamp) and other "below sea-level" areas.
8 posted on 10/01/2005 10:26:10 AM PDT by VRWCTexan (History has a long memory - but still repeats itself)
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To: strongbow

Great minds think alike!


9 posted on 10/01/2005 10:26:47 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading since 2004)
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To: blake6900

Another theory to ponder......
He sounds about 3 sandwiches short of a picnic.IMHO


10 posted on 10/01/2005 10:34:19 AM PDT by WasDougsLamb (Just my opinion.Go easy on me........)
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To: blake6900
Now, with evidence suggesting Katrina's intensity fell within the range the levees should have handled, corps spokesmen are saying the organization wants to conduct a full-scale analysis of the design and construction of the levees.

So, when the head of Homeland Security said the levee break was a surprise he was telling the truth.

OTOH: It's still Bush's fault.

11 posted on 10/01/2005 10:35:37 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Mesocons for Rice '08)
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To: popdonnelly
Anyone want to buy some land in New Orleans? How much are we going to spend to rebuild it?

I read or heard somewhere that real estate investors are buying land and property like crazy in the expectation that when rebuilding starts up they will score big profits. The property and land values around and in NO have actually gone up.

My personal belief is that if NO is to be rebuilt it should be done away from its current areas that are below sea level. To rebuild NO may sound politically correct to many people right now, but the reality is that to rebuild NO where it stood before Katrina is sheer stupidity.
12 posted on 10/01/2005 10:42:02 AM PDT by adorno
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To: adorno

"sheer stupidity"

That would be nicknames for nagin and blanco?


13 posted on 10/01/2005 10:44:54 AM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like what you say))
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To: adorno
to rebuild NO where it stood before Katrina is sheer stupidity.

So of course that is exactly what we'll do.
No matter how much money it takes.

14 posted on 10/01/2005 10:45:19 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Osama Bin Laden Al Khanzier)
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To: manic4organic
It was Karl Rove's landsinker machine
That and the Joooos
15 posted on 10/01/2005 10:46:18 AM PDT by JimDingle (Give Dingle a Jingle)
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To: blake6900

There was an excellent thread on FR a few weeks ago analysing satellite data and pointing to areas where the levees were noticeably lower than they were supposed to be. It's possible FR was out ahead of this story by weeks.


16 posted on 10/01/2005 10:47:25 AM PDT by saganite (The poster formerly known as Arkie 2)
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To: blake6900
"The land has been sinking on the President's watch. Sources tell us that...
(background whisper)
...well it says 1950.
(shuffling of paper)
Who?
(pause)
HARRY TRUMAN?!!"

We are experiencing historical difficulties; please stand by.

17 posted on 10/01/2005 10:50:24 AM PDT by niteowl77 (A soldier's dad once again.)
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To: blake6900

Review this FR thread for an early discussion of the condition and height of the levees using the satellite data I mentioned.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1484668/posts


18 posted on 10/01/2005 10:52:12 AM PDT by saganite (The poster formerly known as Arkie 2)
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To: blake6900

Two prime Bush bashers, NBC and the LA Times, come out with levee failure stories within 24 hours of each other, both factually correct, both also sumarily incorrect. It's no accident.

Both sets of scum know the truth, they know it is going to come out one way or another, and this is yet another attempt to head utter disaster off by means of a pre-emptive strike.

Let them play their games. There was no need to draw Dan Rather in, his impatience and arrogance caused him to throw caution to the winds and plunge ahead, right into a trap, without thinking.

For the moment, these idiots are doing our work for us. They raise attention to Cat 3 levees that failed in Cat 2 conditions. Allow them to continue. So far, they are unable to make their point without explicitly stating it, and this issue is much too complex for the average man in the street to get what the media is trying to sell with only innuendo at their disposal.

Before too long though, NBC, the LA Times, and all the rest will come to a crossroads. They will have to decide between letting their point go unspoken and stating it explicitly.

Regardless of which avenue they choose, the truth is known. The truth is...archived.

If they choose to commit themselves, they leave themselves open to yet another Rathergate.

If they choose not to take the risk of explicitly stating a lie, then the ground is primed and ready for us to make the real point for them.

Once again, those who would save effort and work in achieving undeserved political benefit have outmaneuvered themselves.

No surprise.

Of course, if they were intelligent to begin with, they wouldn't be Liberal, would they?


19 posted on 10/01/2005 11:09:19 AM PDT by jeffers
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To: blake6900
[ This story conveniently leaves out the fact the Prof. van Heerden is also an expert in levees and I've seen his actual title reported elsewhere as "deputy director of the Louisiana State University Hurricane and Levee Center". ]

Rename New Orleans as New Holland.. and use lowland techniques to rebuild the place.. with windmills and everything.. Course that will put a hurtin on the crawfish crop.. draining all them swamps.. or maybe even building the first underwater city.. Should be cheaper than inhabiting to Mars or the Moon..

20 posted on 10/01/2005 11:13:14 AM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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