Posted on 09/30/2005 11:20:25 AM PDT by NormB
Estimates of the numbers of gays in the priesthood vary from 25 percent to 50 percent. About one-third of the 42,500 U.S. priests are members of religious orders.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Others are now on the ropes. In the last month alone we have had half a dozen or more ativles on FR that have spoken of egregeous sin commited by ministers in pentecostal and baptist churches and some of these people were multiple offenders and still tolerated by their congregations.
The reason is that bible schools do not screen their students in any meaningful way they ask the studenta questioneer and take them at their word. Some ask for a letter from a pastor in most cases the pastor will write knowing little about their "convert" or this can be can be forged. After two years they are "Clean" and can move freely into any ministry or pastor.
Since the federal government mandated churches fingerprint and send in the names of their child care workers -- guess what is turning up in their bowels -- child sex offenders by the droves some of them bible school graduates and this is in fundamentalist and evangelical and pentecostal churches none are exempt from this plague.
We are exhort to be vigilant - of sin in our midst -- some have crept into your midst unaware. When there is no discenment, when judgement is removed from our midst the church becames a breeding gound of sin as demonstrated time and again in church history.
This is another article that was posted on FR the same day.
Sex abuse spans spectrum of churches The Christian Science Monitor ^ | April 05, 2002 | Mark Clayton
Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.
These are findings from national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources (CMR), a tax and legal-advice publisher serving more than 75,000 congregations and 1,000 denominational agencies nationwide.
CMR's annual surveys of about 1,000 churches nationwide have asked about sexual abuse since 1993. They're a remarkable window on a problem that lurked largely in the shadows of public awareness until the Catholic scandals arose.
The surveys suggest that over the past decade, the pace of child-abuse allegations against American churches has averaged 70 a week. The surveys registered a slight downward trend in reported abuse starting in 1997, possibly a result of the introduction of preventive measures by churches.
"I think the CMR numbers are striking, yet quite reasonable," says Anson Shupe, anIndiana University professor who's written books about church abuse. "To me it says Protestants are less reluctant to come forward because they don't put their clergy on as high a pedestal as Catholics do with their priests." At least 70 incidents a week
Dr. Shupe suggests the 70 allegations-per-week figure actually could be higher, because underreporting is common. He discovered this in 1998 while going door to door in Dallas-Ft. Worth communities where he asked 1,607 families if they'd experienced abuse from those within their church. Nearly 4 percent said they had been victims of sexual abuse by clergy. Child sexual abuse was part of that, but not broken out, he says.
James Cobble, executive director of CMR, who oversees the survey, says the data show that child sex-abuse happens broadly across all denominations– and that clergy aren't the major offenders.
"The Catholics have gotten all the attention from the media, but this problem is even greater with the Protestant churches simply because of their far larger numbers," he says.
Of the 350,000 churches in the US, 19,500 – 5 percent – are Roman Catholic. Catholic churches represent a slightly smaller minority of churches in the CMR surveys which aren't scientifically random, but "representative" demographic samples of churches, Dr. Cobble explains.
Since 1993, on average about 1 percent of the surveyed churches reported abuse allegations annually. That means on average, about 3,500 allegations annually, or nearly 70 per among the predominantly Protestant group, Cobble says.
The CMR findings also reveal:
• Most church child-sexual-abuse cases involve a single victim.
• Law suits or out-of-court settlements were a result in 21 percent of the allegations reported in the 2000 survey.
• Volunteers are more likely than clergy or paid staff to be abusers. Perhaps more startling, children at churches are accused of sexual abuse as often as are clergy and staff. In 1999, for example, 42 percent of alleged child abusers were volunteers – about 25 percent were paid staff members (including clergy) and 25 percent were other children.
Still, it is the reduction of reported allegations over nine years that seems to indicate that some churches are learning how to slow abuse allegations with tough new prevention measures, say insurance company officials and church officials themselves.
The peak year for allegations was 1994, with 3 percent of churches reporting an allegation of sexual misconduct compared with just 0.1 percent in 2000. But 2001 data, indicates a swing back to the 1 percent level, still significantly less than the 1993 figures, Cobble says.
Child sexual-abuse insurance claims have slowed, too, industry sources say.
Hugh White, vice president of marketing for Brotherhood Mutual Insurance, in Ft. Wayne, Ind., suggests that the amount of abuse reported in the CMR 2001 data is reasonable though "at the higher end" of the scale.
Mr. White's company insures 30,000 churches – about 0.2 percent to 0.3 percent of which annually report an "incident" of child sexual abuse. But he says that his churches are more highly educated on child abuse prevention procedures than most, which may account for a lower rate of reported abuse than the CMR surveys.
What all the data show is a settling that followed "a large spike" in the frequency and severity of church sexual misconduct claims from the mid-1980s, White says.
"Church insurance carriers implemented educational programs and policies that have helped decrease and then stabilize the trend," agrees Jan Beckstrom, chief operating officer for the church insurer GuideOne Insurance in West Des Moines, Iowa.
CMR surveys also show many smaller churches have lagged in starting such programs, while larger churches with more resources and management controls have led the way. And for good reason: They have more to lose, and a larger abuse problem.
"I don't know of a church that isn't doing this," says Simeon May, of the Richardson, Tex.-based National Association of Church Business Administration, which gives training for large churches with administrators.
At Grace Community Church in Tempe, Ariz., the executive pastor, Gary Maitha, says his church has adopted a tougher sort of love since 2000. That's when criminal background checks, finger printing, detailed questionnaires, and careful policies – such as never having children and adults "one-on-one" – kicked into gear. It's a necessity with 700 to 800 children showing up for Sunday School and many more for other church activities during the week, he says.
"We have fingerprinting and a criminal background check for anyone over age 18 that works with children," says the Rev. Maitha. "If it comes back with a blemish, they're not working with kids. That's all there is to it."
Debby DeBernardi, director of Grace Community's children's ministry, says church policies require, for instance, that adults go in pairs when supervising bathroom breaks for children and that they check to ensure no adults are in the bathrooms, before children enter. Fingerprints for Sunday school
Men who've been screened and fingerprinted may work in the nursery. But only female staff members – not volunteers – may change diapers. Only adults wearing an identity badge that indicates they've been cleared may work with children – and photo IDs are coming soon. Some long-time volunteers, offended by all the new policies, have bowed out of children's activities.
But the new procedures have already proven their worth, Ms. DeBernardi says. "We did have someone already apply who had a police file and had been accused of child molestation. Because of our new procedures, we caught it.... Sometimes you have to bring people in and say, 'Look, you're welcome to come to the church, we love you. But you may not minister in the children's area.' "
That sort of toughness is swiftly becoming a prerequisite for insurance coverage, and to protect against lawsuits and false allegations, which can be nearly as demoralizing to a church organization.
The problem, Cobble says, is that churches are the perfect environment for sexual predators, because they have large numbers of children's' programs, a shortage of workers to lead them, and a culture of trust that is the essence of the organization.
Churches have been active since the early 1990s in addressing the problem, Cobble reports. More than 100,000 copies of a book he co-authored, "Reducing the risk of Child Sexual Abuse in Your Church" were sold.
Since January, when Roman Catholic dioceses nationwide began drawing headlines over pedophile priests, some church organizations have focused anew on revamping sexual abuse policies.
The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, for instance, is reportedly drafting a new sexual- abuse policy.
Ralph Colas, of the American Council of Christian Churches, a Bethlehem, Penn. organization representing fundamentalist denominations, reports fresh activity. "I've helped several churches this last week draw up some guideline policies," he says. "I've encouraged churches to secure legal advice, to make sure they are meeting the legal mandatory reporting requirements." Fear of lawsuits sparked new rules
But the shift to "trust but verify" – impelled to a degree by current headlines – has been ongoing since a conference in Chicago in November 1992 when more than 100 denominational leaders met for the first time to discuss how to deal with child sex abuse. About that time, insurance companies were dropping coverage of churches without screening policies.
"What drove leaders to begin to respond to this issue was not the welfare of children," Cobble says. "It was fear of large, costly lawsuits."
There was another article that was pulled from FR minutes after it was posted because someone feared its words and the meaning of them.
I won't post the article but I will give excerts
Internet pornography is one of the vexing issues for churches today, especially those that take strict moral lines on sexuality. Some consider viewing pornography a form of adultery; others decry erotic images as addictive and destructive to marriage.
Pastors, like school officials, often face severe punishment if they are found to have looked at Internet pornography. In 2000 Christianity Today magazine surveyed its readers (anonymously) and found that more than a third of the pastors who responded said they viewed pornographic Web sites, a number only slightly lower than their parishioners.
Even this figure is low, said Archibald D. Hart, a senior professor of psychology at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, Calif. "I do conferences for 3,000 pastors a year, and this is a biggie wherever I go," Mr. Hart said.
In response, churches and lay Christians have created a circuit of "sexual addiction" seminars, 12-step programs and even residential treatment centers, modeled on drug or alcohol detox centers, where people can stay for months at a time. Most address pornography as psychologically damaging rather than as a sin, Mr. Hart said.
Mr. Hart, who surveyed pastors for his 1995 book, "The Sexual Man," said that most pastors and church members used Internet pornography at one time or another.
"In some of the more conservative denominations it is silent, it's a secret, no one talks about it," he said. "And those pastors are frankly in denial about the impact of pornography."
For Mr. Foster and Mr. Gross, who were both involved with conservative churches, the issue called for a generational break: not condemning pornography from on high, but forming relationships with both the producers and its consumers, including pastors.
There are atricles with surveys from Christianity today and other christian publications that have found 30% of preachers in evangelical fundamentalist and pentecostal churches admitting to haveing viewed porn on line more than one time -- how many do you suppose are out that that will not admit such a thing and if that is the level of penetration of this sin in the preachers where to you think theri converts are?
Jesus said of the pharisees that went they gained a convert the convert became a two-fold child of hell of what they were.
This is rising and it is a judgment upon everyone who calls themselves a beleiver and covers over the sin of their brother or pastor without exhorting them of sin righteousness and the judgment. And if they hear you not return with two or three elders . . .
The stand against sin in opur midst begins with you not your pastor or elders.
And there always will be homosexuals in the Church.
Buggery and such was fairly prevalent during the Middle Ages and Renaissance
Yah, so? It's happening today!! Right here in River City!!!
Now when you state that '...[you] don't know the history of the Church...' in attempting to defend ordaining homosexuals, and then you come back with THIS drivel as "proof" of your contention, it's fairly clear that you're not ready for prime time.
Ain't that sweet.
Somewhere, it's raining.
THERE!!
That's two on which we can agree. As to Wahabbist--I don't think so, as heresy is not my game.
But I do think that Tomas Torquemada should be raised to the altar.
I suspect, however, that the "lax" evangelical and pentecostal churches you refer to, are in parts of the country where large percentages of the population are self identified "evangelicals" and it's a socially respectable thing to do -- whereas here in California, where there is zero social pressure to go to church (indeed, quite the reverse), generally speaking, nobody shows up at an evangelical church unless they really believe. In such an environment, a much higher percentage of the men in church are real men, and far fewer of them are "church mice" (my private term for wimpy lightweights who hang around churches ane even go into the ministry mainly because they couldn't hack it in the real world.)
Even so, we did have one homopedophile infiltrate a youth ministry at one church I attended; he was caught, exposed, and fled the country to avoid arrest. He preached a lot of sermons on "kissing dating goodbye"... ugh, now we know why.
As for the Methodist Church being evangelical -- it was, about 100 years ago, when my father's ancestors were part of it. From what I hear, they sold out a long time ago.
This is rising and it is a judgment upon everyone who calls themselves a beleiver and covers over the sin of their brother or pastor without exhorting them of sin righteousness and the judgment. And if they hear you not return with two or three elders . . .
Preach it, preach it. I'm trying to get this instituted in my church more. My wife and I still communicate with the leadership of the adult-singles ministry from which we "graduated" 3 years ago, and there's a lot more covert HETEROSEXUAL sin in such places than most people know. We've been pushing behind the scenes, to have that sin (and others) biblically confronted. Let's hope we succeed.
The stand against sin in our midst begins with you not your pastor or elders.
Amen, and amen, and amen.
I agree. Gays should never be ordained as priests.
Well said.
This priest was an example of why homosexual men should not be priests.
Re: "But I do think that Tomas Torquemada should be raised to the altar."
And this is where we part ways. Tomas the terrible is no doubt in the eternal weeny roast, which is exactly where he belongs.
I'm a big fan of the old Irish Catholic Church (before Pope Adrian)
Re: "But I do think that Tomas Torquemada should be raised to the altar."
And this is where we part ways. Tomas the terrible is no doubt in the eternal weeny roast, which is exactly where he belongs.
I'm a big fan of the old Irish Catholic Church (before Pope Adrian)
It was a woman, Mary Sanchanez, who wrote the article.
Are those studies about the AMchurch or worldwide? I really hope its just the church here, we're only 6% of the whole of the Catholic church, and I can't tell you how comforting that is to me on a daily basis..
Question: If Luther is the Devil for breaking away, (which he never advocated by the way) then what does that make the Roman Church for causing a schism and breaking away from Holy Orthodoxy in 1054?>>>>>>
Martin Luther never broke away from the Catholic church. He died a Catholic priest. His followers broke away
I beg to differ on one point. He died excommunicate, not a Priest....And though he never intended to break away, it happened nonetheless.....
No -YOU pick a rule specifically and state what is problem relative toi what is authentically and legitimately taught or just cut the moral relative nonsense...
The saying goes something like "put up or shut up" the fact that you are not pleased or that you judge others as this or that is meaningless -clearly state your case or rest your tongue as it does nothing good otherwise...
Very interesting explanation and one I think contributed to the increase in homosexuals in seminaries just as you describe. I am however, most interested in WHY this happened from the Church's point of view. Who were the players who let it happen, where, when, which seminaries, in what cities, how did this happen? With Katrina, we want to know what went wrong so we can correct it. I don't see the same desire to find out what happened from he big wigs in the CC?
One question to you or anyone. Are there any books out there in this huge vast ocean of information that details how and for how long this process took place? One of things that amazes me in today's information, is the lack of written material on this subject. God knows there have been the most stupid books written on the most trivial of subjects... yet, I can't find ANYTHING...that chronicles how this phenomenon took place! Amazing!
Anyone knows?
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