Posted on 09/27/2005 9:10:31 AM PDT by Crackingham
Dover Area School District's federal trial began yesterday in Harrisburg with talk ranging from divine intervention and the Boston Red Sox to aliens and bacterial flagellum. After about 10 months of waiting, the court case against the district and its board opened in Middle District Judge John E. Jones III's courtroom with statements from lawyers and several hours of expert testimony from biologist and Brown University professor Kenneth Miller.
On one side of the aisle, several plaintiffs packed themselves in wooden benches behind a row of attorneys from the American Civil Liberties Union, Pepper Hamilton LLC and Americans United for Separation of Church and State. On the other side of the aisle, nine school board members, only three of whom were on the board when it voted 6-3 to include a statement on intelligent design in biology classes, piled in behind lawyers from the Thomas More Law Center. Assistant superintendent Michael Baksa and superintendent Richard Nilsen shared a bench with Michael Behe, a Lehigh University professor expected to take the stand in defense of intelligent design.
SNIP
Miller, whose resume is several pages long and includes a stint as a professor at Harvard University, was the first witness called for the parents. Miller co-wrote the Prentice Hall textbook "Biology" with professor Joe Levine. The book is used by 35 percent of the high school students in the United States, Miller said. His were some of the thousands of biology books in which school officials in Cobb County, Ga., ordered stickers to be placed, warning that evolution is only a theory, "not a fact." Miller also testified in a lawsuit filed by Cobb County parents, and a judge later ordered that the stickers be removed.
Yesterday, the scientist's testimony was at times dominated by scientific terminology, though he jokingly told ACLU attorney Witold Walczak he would do his best to explain things in the layman's terms he uses with his mother.
Miller said intelligent design supporters think an intelligent designer must have been involved in the creation of life because science can't yet prove how everything evolved. He said the intelligent design idea that birds were created with beaks, feathers and wings and fish were born with fins is a creationist argument.
Intelligent design supporters often cite "irreducible complexity" in their research, he said. "Irreducible complexity" means that a living thing can't be reduced by any part or it won't work at all. So those living things could not have evolved in the way Darwin suggested; they had to be created with all of their existing parts, Miller said.
Intelligent design proponents often cite the bacterial flagellum, a bacterium with a tail that propels it, Miller said. Behe and his colleagues claim bacterial flagellum had to be created with all of its parts because it couldn't function if any of them were taken away, Miller testified. But scientists have proved that the bacterial flagellum can be reduced to a smaller being, a little organism that operates in a manner similar to a syringe, Miller said.
One of the biggest problems with the scientific viability of intelligent design is there is no way to experiment with the presence of a supernatural being because science only deals with the natural world and theories that are testable, Miller said.
Some people might suspect divine intervention last year when the Boston Red Sox came back to win the World Series after losing three games in a row to the New York Yankees in the playoffs. It may have been, but that's not science, he said. And intelligent design proponents haven't named the "intelligent being" behind their supposition, Miller said. They have suggested, among other things, that it could be aliens, he said. He said there is no evidence to prove intelligent design, so its proponents just try to poke holes in the theory of evolution.
No. But throwing your grandmother upstairs violates the Law of Gravity
Actually the theory of evolution seems to be doing fine.
However, based on this current trial, ID seems to be circling the drain as did CS before it. They are fine as belief, but I don't think they have any role in science classes.
That we should try to achieve a long well-lived life (since it's the only one available), rather than committing atrocities for the 72 virgins or other reward promised in the afterlife.
The Noah story is about wiping out humans interbred with nephilum, you see Noah wasnt sinless or anything like that
he just wasnt from any mixed marriages or fornications if
you prefer. If you care to read the geneology in Luke you will find Noah in there, it was a massive gene pool cleansing. If you care to know what nephilum are they were described as giants or fallen ones.
The human mind is slightly more complex than a Ferrari engine. Why should one think it developed "naturally," as you say? Because we cannot "see" it's designer?
Not correct. It's apparently God's Grace, not anybodies' belief.
A visitor was shown into Bohr's office, and observed a horseshoe hanging over the desk. "Surely," objected the visitor, "you don't believe that hanging up a horseshoe will bring luck!"God's Grace is like the horseshoe
"Of course not," scoffed Bohr. "I am a man of science, and I don't believe in these silly superstitions. However," he admitted, I'm told that it works whether you believe in it or not."
put down the pipe and slowly back away....
I'm just not that adorable
Maybe the Designer doesnt want you to see him, maybe
the designer is busy designing other things elsewhere.
The designer doesnt want to hold your hand and walk you through stuff he gave you free will, do as you please.
Maybe the designer has sent messengers to you and you
just ignored them or refused their invitation, would you
spend time with anyone who didnt want to be with you?
Yes it is wrong, because children might get the idea that the State isn't the highest power in the universe, and they owe their very existence and loyalty always to the State (except during the times evil Republicans are in power). *kof* *splurgh*
Most assuredly God is a danger to our highly technical society (never mind when the power is out) but our highly
refined scientific elite cannot be exposed to primitive
speculative myths. That is why God must be removed at any cost from buildings, documents and above all other peoples minds. That is why the scientific elite will scoff and mock any who dares mention anything about the God of the Bible, any other gods are ok, the koran is ok with them
just dont mention the bible they hate it hate it hate it!
With good reason the God of the Bible has harsh words
for them, the God of the Bible requires something from them
so their disdain is understandable.
Are you feeling ok?
Maybe you can put that story in a more pleasing light for me.
The biggest admission by Miller is that evolution is not a fact. It also appears that Miller has not identified anything in the statement of the school board that is incorrect.
I think these admissions/unrefuted statements are significant. I suspect that Miller is not prepared to face a skilled cross-examination where he will actually have to answer the questions asked rather than simply saying what he wants.
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