Germany's Schroeder Refuses to Concede

Associated Press ^ | 9/18/05 | DAVID RISING

[ukman]

Now, where have I said anything like what you accuse me of? All I was doing was criticizing the tendency on FR to roll out the same old Nazi comparisons and allusions on every single thread about Germany and the Germans. It gets annoying. And to say the NSDAP were socialists is to misunderstand the essence of that party. Find out what happened to the genuine SPD in the Hitler period.

Never having been outside Europe, as I freely admit, I'm not qualified to pronounce on the USA. And I don't (well, a couple of times on less serious matters where my posts were more in the way of a question and/or humorous in intent - exceptions proving the rule). It's your country, do whatever you see fit; European countries will do the same.

I know full well about the American presence in Germany, and you'll be aware how very Americanised the country is. I knew quite a few US soldiers back in the 70s myself and always enjoyed their company.

To tell the truth, I've little interest in Iraq or Katrina or American politics/culture, and BTW like most other people here I thought the US caskets election poster was in bad taste.

You had a nice rant, but you're aiming at the wrong person!

[ukman]

Er, yes...
You have a nice day too!

[ukman]

Well, strictly speaking, "bugger off" is offensive, but also an imperative, and not descriptive. I never said Americans were dumb, by the way, I was trying to illustrate how Schröder had worked his way up from nothing. I apologise for the use of the words "white trash", I didn't know it was non-PC to use them.

[beckysueb]

Gerhart Gore.

[beckysueb]

But did Schroeder's home "state" vote against him in 2005 as Gore's did in 2000?

Kudos to Tennessee. And they call us dumb hillbillies.

[ukman]

>Schröder is a socialist and an America hater, so he is fair game for both comparision and parody. Growing up poor and having a parent that suffered should have made him appreciate the cost of freedom, but as a dyed in the wool socialist he obviously does not. You disrespect the USA and/or our President and you are crap to me. Sorry if you don't like it.<

Paragraph contains at least five factual errors, I'll let you work out yourself what they are.
The only true statement is that I am crap to you. Well, you're crap to me, so that makes us quits.
Incidentally, your photo "enhancement" is rather poor quality. Keep practising.

[loveitor..]

Hey Lord Haw Haw,
That's "practicing", "not practising...didn't you admonish someone earlier on this thread to use words they could spell? Maybe you should "practise" what you preach.

[ukman]

Correct British spelling. Look it up.

[muir_redwoods]

"Germany's Schroeder Refuses to Concede"

Why do't we send them Jimmy Carter?

Or is there some sort of Geneva Convention thing preventing that?

[flieger]

Although I also think that you aimed your rant at the wrong person, I have to admit that you are absolutely right about the majority of Germans - actually in some points you even give them too much credit.

On the other hand, there are some decent people living in this country too.

[viko]

"A FEW may get a small glimpse of the US IF they vacation here. Then their whole knowledge of the US is based on what they saw in Florida, the Grand Canyon, Alaska or California. Most, and I mean 99% have NO idea about what the US is, what we represent, our values, even how our government works and state is organized. They are “IGNORANT”, but that sure does not seem to slow them down in making broad sweeping statements that are always the same old $hit. Most any discussion I ever had with a German ended up with me explaining how our system of government and justice work. They have no idea about our military, no idea about our history, other than: “We killed the Indians” and “oppressed the blacks.” "

Shure, it makes me IGNORANT travel the US and answering questions like: "Is Hitler still president?" And yes, of
course every German has to know anything about the American
goverment, justice and military.

Let me remind you, that hundred of thousand´s people lined up the streets waving American flags as American presidents
visits Germany in the past. Same on 9/11. A little known
fact is, that 60.000 German troops doing service outside
Germany in NATO or whatever missions.

Yes, the American image has changed as most people thinking that the IRAQ war was not justified, great American values as "Freedom of Speech" are changing and part of the American economy is based on creative accounting and printing Dollars.

But, specially the Germans received so much help from America that these scratches in the image are not important at all. BTW,
BBC?
I thought the Brits are part of "new Europe".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/

[Red6]

National SOZIALISTISCHE Deutsche Arbeiter Partei.

They were socialists, and this was more than just in name. It's strange how the defenders of socialism always have to resort to the "Oh, Russia wasn’t reallllllly socialist." or "China isn't really an example of socialism." or "The NAZI's were no real socialists."

The Geemans learned that nationalism and patriotism is a danger out of their WWII experience. The real threat, socialism is not percieved as such today. In fact they see a lot of merit in this system and its values.

So, then- Give me an example of "real" socialism? An example you like and meets the seal of approval by you.

Red6

[stefan10]

Iraq and all these things are no real issue in germany anymore. Nobody really cares about Iraq including myself.
It is a topic for americans and the US. For example foreign policy was no topic during the election campaign (only turkey a little bit).

"You define yourselves through opposition to the US"

sorry but i really doubt you lived in germany.

"Most, and I mean 99% have NO idea about what the US is, what we represent, our values, even how our government works and state is organized"

these posts here show that even the americans that are interested in politics have no idea how our system works.

"Portugal, Greece, YU, Romania, Bulgaria…..Either were forbidden to travel in the past or today can’t afford to travel to the US. However, the average American can afford travel to Europe and we do it quiet extensively."

i am sure you will present a link and showing some numbers i will do the same.
Do you know when Greece and Portugal joined the EU and so who should deny their right to travel?

"All you need to do to be liked by a self-proclaimed intellectual “old” European is string these words together - Hegemonic, imperialistic, neo-colonialist, oil, Bush, Cowboy, Halliburton - and you’ll be immediately accepted as an intellectual; an expert."

Oh Jesus you really lived here you are a real expert of german people. LOL

I believe you make a lot of friends when you travel around the world and you must do that very often according to your knowledge of europe and europeans. Just stay as you are and keep your prejudices alive.

[stefan10]

Sorry your historical knowledge is wrong. I can understand the feeling to blame socialism for everything and socialism can be blamed for a lot of evil in this world your NAZI example is totally wrong.


1. The first people killed and arrested by the NAZIS were the communists, socialists and social democrats. The only two parties voting against the Ermächtigungsgesetz that gave Hitler his dictatoship were the communist ( at least the ones that were not killed and arrested) and the social democrats with the famous speech of Otto Wels in the Reichstag. Sad but true the conservative parties vote with Hitler and allowed him to do the things we all still know very well. That´s one reason why the conservatives found a a new party with a new name after WWII while the socialdemocrates still exist with the same name.

2. THe NAZIS were a right wing nationalistic party

3. There is the word socialistic is in the party name this is true.
in the early days of this movement after WWI they shared some common views with the socialists but that changed very early. Hitler understood that he needed the support of the
companies and the economy to archive his goals and he got that support.

Your problem is that you don´t seem to be interested in facts or historical events. You just seem to look for something that fits into your small picture of the world.

[ukman]

What's in a name? The "socialist" element of the NSDAP (Gregor Strasser & Co.) were eliminated in 1934, "Night of the Long Knives". Hitler was in cahoots with the big industrial companies and nationalist/conservative types, not with the real SPD and the Communists, who spent the years till '45 in hiding/exile/concentration camps.
Any "socialist" element in Nazism was restricted to public works to ease unemployment and benefits (stolen from Jews and foreigners) to Aryan Germans only. That is definitely NOT socialism.

I don't approve of Socialism, real or otherwise, so why should I have to give you an example of it?

Like I said, it's this dumb Germans = Nazis so prevalent on FR that bugs me.

[flieger]

"Is Hitler still president?"

I have spent a lot of time in the US over the past 15 years and lived in TX for the last three years. Nobody EVER asked me a stupid question like that, although I talked to Americans of all shades and colors. I remember when I met a toothless redneck (no offense) in 1992, in a small rural town in Georgia and he asked me about my view on the fall of the Berlin Wall and the end of the DDR. NEVER did anybody show any prejudice about me being German, called me a Nazi or anything like that.

When I moved back to Germany and told people I have lived in Texas, most responses were about: "Did you have any problems with Bush?" "Oh, Bush country" "death penalty" "cowboy hats and cowboy boots" "big fuel-guzzeling, globe-warming pick-up trucks" and all those great stereotypes.

And it is true, the more intellectual people think they are, the more they bash the US.

[Red6]

More later,

I understand there are many Berufstudenten and Arbeitslose who have a lot of time in Germany to pontificate about how great “socialism” is. But-----

Here in the US we have JOBS and WORK, so I'm busy right now, I'll respond later.

Red6

[ukman]

Now, that's very daring of you to presume that I am jobless or a student just because I take time out to make and reply to posts on FR. I've been self-employed over 20 years and, never unemployed. Incidentally, with a nearly 12 % jobless figure this means that over 88% of people in Germany are also quite busy, and statistically have a higher productivity per capita than US employees, so don't be so patronising.

I've found nobody here pontificating about socialism. It's just that equating Nazis with Social Democrats and even with Socialists is deeply insulting - and stupid too. And I don't care where you've been in Europe, it doesn't confer automatic wisdom in things European.

[ukman]

I'm glad to hear you never met anyone in Texas asking stupid questions about Nazis, Germany etc.

They must have all been at home posting on FR.

[fqued]

What's so untouchable about the New Left Party that neither of the big two are willing to talk to it, i.e. to build a coalition government with the New Left Party?