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LIVE THREAD - German polls closed: AP: SCHROEDER DEFEATED!
SABC NEWS ^ | September 18, 2005, 08:15

Posted on 09/18/2005 12:12:37 AM PDT by alessandrofiaschi

Voting began in Germany's closely fought election today with millions of undecided voters holding the key to a result that will have major implications for economic reform in Europe.

Angela Merkel, a Christian Democrat (CDU) chancellor, is expected to emerge as Germany's first woman chancellor, displacing Gerhard Schroeder who has led Germany for the past seven years at the head of a centre-left government of Social Democrats and Greens.

A provisional result is expected to be announced in the early hours of Monday morning. The final opinion polls published on Friday gave Merkel's centre-right coalition with the liberal Free Democrats (FDP) a slim lead in a race it once dominated.

High stakes For Germany and the rest of Europe, the stakes in the election are high. Some five million Germans are out of work, the country's pensions system is in crisis, its public finances are overstretched and the economy that once drove growth in Europe is now acting as a drag on the rest of the continent.

Analysts say that if Germany succeeds in pushing through reforms, they could be a model for change in the rest of Europe. Surveys show that most Germans believe the system needs changing but they are deeply uncertain about how far the changes should go and how the burden should be shared.

Schroeder's own "Agenda 2010" reforms to welfare and labour market rules have been the most ambitious attempt to overhaul the social security system in decades. They have been attacked by the conservatives and by some commentators as not going far enough. The reforms were bitterly resented by voters. - Reuters


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2005election; agenda; agenda2010; america; angelamerkel; bush; cdu; cducsu; chancellor; change; christiandemocrat; conservatism; conservative; conservatives; economicreform; election; europe; fdp; flattax; generalelection; germanelection; germany; haha; livethread; merkel; poll; polls; prousa; rats; schroeder; spd; usa; vote
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To: HapaxLegamenon

Probably with the help of the new hard lefty party, that gained in this election.


161 posted on 09/18/2005 10:48:51 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: HapaxLegamenon
per CNN: Gerhard Schroeder says he can remain Germany's chancellor in a new coalition government. Details soon.

The numbers work if he cuts a deal with the Linkspartei - Communists and far left wingers.

Germany just went from floating in the toilet to being flushed into the sewer, in that instance.

Regards, Ivan

162 posted on 09/18/2005 10:49:34 AM PDT by MadIvan (You underestimate the power of the Dark Side - http://www.sithorder.com/)
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To: Dane

that would be nice (sarcasm) the SPD (socialists) Greens (socialists) and the PDS (communists) as a ruling coalition. Watch just this thing happen. If it does happen, we need to pull ALL of our military out of Germany yesterday.


163 posted on 09/18/2005 10:51:08 AM PDT by frankiep
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To: pbrown

Good point


164 posted on 09/18/2005 10:51:15 AM PDT by 1035rep
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To: frankiep
that would be nice (sarcasm) the SPD (socialists) Greens (socialists) and the PDS (communists) as a ruling coalition. Watch just this thing happen. If it does happen, we need to pull ALL of our military out of Germany yesterday.


I will be out of Germany too, if that happens.
165 posted on 09/18/2005 10:54:45 AM PDT by flieger (Go Angie! / No more Moore please!!!)
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To: MadIvan
Only if he scraps his unpopular reform program. Germany doesn't have the stomach to make the painful changes the country needs to have to avoid becoming the Sick Old Man Of Europe. As matters stand, the Germans will get there well before France.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
166 posted on 09/18/2005 10:55:32 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: MadIvan
The numbers work if he cuts a deal with the Linkspartei - Communists and far left wingers.

Germany just went from floating in the toilet to being flushed into the sewer, in that instance

Someone said, IIRC Mark Twain(Samuel Clemens), the definiton of insanity is doing the same thing that fails over and over again and expecting the same result.

Looks like the Germans are following that definition to a T.

167 posted on 09/18/2005 10:55:39 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: flieger

i'm already leaving within the next 3 months. something like this happening will only make me try to get out of here that much faster.


168 posted on 09/18/2005 10:55:44 AM PDT by frankiep
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To: frankiep

Are you there now? Oh, you poor thing. What torture. I spent ten years there one year. LOL


169 posted on 09/18/2005 10:56:46 AM PDT by riri
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To: goldstategop
Only if he scraps his unpopular reform program. Germany doesn't have the stomach to make the painful changes the country needs to have to avoid becoming the Sick Old Man Of Europe. As matters stand, the Germans will get there well before France.

I think that's precisely what happened. Many Germans realised that voting CDU would usher in a period of change, and they don't want that.

The Germans have a huge problem of high unemployment; if reforms are scrapped, it will only get worse. The country is going to turn in on itself.

Blair is likely to keep Germany at arm's length; it is definitely time for Britain to leave the EU. I want no part of this. I am not picking up the tab when this implodes.

Regards, Ivan

170 posted on 09/18/2005 10:58:22 AM PDT by MadIvan (You underestimate the power of the Dark Side - http://www.sithorder.com/)
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To: riri

i've been here for over 6 of the last 7 years


171 posted on 09/18/2005 10:58:44 AM PDT by frankiep
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To: All

There is no way Merkel can form a government with the FDP. The reactionary Left (SDP+Greens+Left_Party) have won this election. There will be no reforms people! Watch the euro when markets open tomorrow. I wonder if the Dow will go up like 100 points.</p>


172 posted on 09/18/2005 10:59:59 AM PDT by Skylab
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To: Dane

What irritates me is that some of the worst scum in Europe, namely Oskar Lafontaine and Gregor Gysi, may have gotten themselves into a position of power because of this.

Regards, Ivan


173 posted on 09/18/2005 11:00:02 AM PDT by MadIvan (You underestimate the power of the Dark Side - http://www.sithorder.com/)
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To: Dane

CNN now has the CDU at 34.9% and the SPD at 34.1%. The gap is getting closer. Watch the SPD win. Just watch.


174 posted on 09/18/2005 11:00:57 AM PDT by frankiep
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To: Michael81Dus

Good luck on Merkel. Question though, papers are saying there's no way Merkel would ally with the FDP to get the majority she needs in parliament. Why not?


175 posted on 09/18/2005 11:01:00 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Skylab
Memo to Germany:

  1. You thoroughly mucked up your country.
  2. It's going to get worse.
  3. Don't call either Britain or the United States. We're not interested.

Regards, Ivan

176 posted on 09/18/2005 11:02:11 AM PDT by MadIvan (You underestimate the power of the Dark Side - http://www.sithorder.com/)
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To: frankiep

We just returned to Germany after spending three wonderful years in Texas and now this... oh boy, I am mad.


177 posted on 09/18/2005 11:02:26 AM PDT by flieger (Go Angie! / No more Moore please!!!)
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To: MadIvan

being in this country the past few years has been like watching a trainwreck.


178 posted on 09/18/2005 11:03:41 AM PDT by frankiep
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To: MadIvan
I wouldn't be surprised if the election pushes the SPD to the Left if only to recover its lost voters. Still, you have to wonder if the German Left can be pieced back together again. They know what they do want but they know they can't keep it the way it was and I suspect the German Left is in deeper trouble than the Right.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
179 posted on 09/18/2005 11:03:54 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: frankiep
CNN now has the CDU at 34.9% and the SPD at 34.1%. The gap is getting closer. Watch the SPD win. Just watch

And with the new hard lefty party as part of the coalition govt. no doubt

Germany has gone insane, isn't the first time though.

180 posted on 09/18/2005 11:04:05 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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