Posted on 09/07/2005 2:14:21 AM PDT by Aussie Dasher
I did not think that the President could invoke martial law. That is a states rights issue I thought. He can declare a natural disaster and that is a money issue, but unless the Governor of a state cedes control, the President has no such power! Correct me if I am wrong.
1. The Mayor 2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security (a political appointee of the Governor who reports to the Governor) 3. The Governor 4. The Head of Homeland Security 5. The President
Revision:
Technically you're correct. There is no express power for the declaration of martial law granted to the President of the United States.
However, the precedent set by President Lincoln is such that a President can get away with it, but he'll have to answer to Congress afterward, which is where the question of the President overstepping his authority will be decided.
In other words, if Congress doesn't interfere with the President in his role of commander-in-chief, acting in that role to secure the public safety in an emergency, then a Presidential declaration of martial law can stick.
Source: http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_mlaw.html
"In the United States, there is precedent for martial law. Several times in the course of our history, martial law of varying degrees has been declared. The most obvious and often-cited example was when President Lincoln declared martial law during the Civil War. This instance provides us with most of the rules for martial law that we would use today, should the need arise."
The following article from nola.com has some of the quotes from Post 1.
Mandatory evacuation ordered for New Orleans
8/28/2005, 10:48 a.m. CT
The Associated Press
NEW ORLEANS (AP) — In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin.
Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last resort for people to go, including the Superdome.
The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because airlines had already cancelled all flights.
Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.
"There doesn't seem to be any relief in sight," Blanco said.
She said Interstate 10, which was converted Saturday so that all lanes headed one-way out of town, was total gridlock.
"We are facing a storm that most of us have long feared," Nagin said.
The storm surge most likely could topple the city's levee system, which protect it from surrounding waters of Lake Pontchartrain, the Mississippi River and marshes, the mayor said. The bowl-shaped city must pump water out during normal times, and the hurricane threatened pump power.
Previous hurricanes evacuations in New Orleans were always voluntary, because so many people don't have the means of getting out. Some are too poor and there is always a French Quarter full of tourists who get caught.
"This is a once in a lifetime event," the mayor said. "The city of New Orleans has never seen a hurricane of this magnitude hit it directly," the mayor said.
He told those who had to move to the Superdome to come with enough food for several days and with blankets. He said it will be a very uncomfortable place and encouraged everybody who could to get out.
Nagin said police and firefighters would spread out throughout the city sounding sirens and using bullhorns to tell residents to get out. He also said police would have the authority to comandeer any vehicle or building that could be used for evacuation or shelter.
The Superdome was already taking in people with special problems. It opened about 8 a.m. and people on walkers, some with oxygen tanks, began checking in.
In a neighborhood in central city, a group of residents sat on a porch. It was almost a party atmosphere.
"We're not evacuating," said Julie Paul, 57. "None of us have any place to go. We're counting on the Superdome. That's our lifesaver."
She said they'd spent the last couple of hurricanes there. They would wait for a friend who has a van to take them, because none has cars.
At a nearby gas station, Linda Young, 37, was tanking up her car.
"I'm really scared. I've been through hurricanes, but this one scares me. I think everybody needs to get out," she said.
She said they planned to leave Saturday but couldn't get gas, and didn't want to go without it, so got up early and got in a gas line.
In the suburbs, evacuations were under way.
"That sun is shining too bright for this to be happening," said Joyce Tillis, manager of the Holiday Inn Select at the airport in the suburbs as she called the more than 140 guests to tell them the hotel was under a mandatory evacuation. "It's too nice a day."
Tillis lives inside the flood zone in the community of Avondale. She said she called her three daughters and told them to get out. "If I'm stuck, I'm stuck," Tillis said. "I'd rather save my second generation if I can."
bump!
As a practical matter, anyone can can declare martial law - if they control troops who will back that declaration up with deadly force. Martial law is about raw power. Martial law is about suspending constitutional rights and threatening summary execution of violations of public order. Shoot first and ask questions later, if ever.In hindsight, we now know that Bush doing that would have been a humanitarian act if it enabled him to accomplish an essentially complete evacuation of NOLA. coconutt2000 makes the point, though, that had he done so, we would be denied the hindsight that we now have - the good he did would be taken for granted, and he would have been impeached for violating the Constitution. Bush himself could not really know, though he certainly must have strongly suspected, that things would have gone this bad when he was between the rock of onrushing Katrina and the hard place of the constitutional limits on his authority.
There was always the bare outside chance that Katrina might actually do limited damage, making the evacuation seem unnecessary in hindsight. That is precisely what had happened on prior near-miss hurricanes, as a caller to Rush Limbaugh noted yesterday. The caller predicted that when NOLA gets dried out we will find many automobiles owned by people whose prior experience of getting out of Dodge in horrendous traffice had convinced them that evacuating wasn't worth it - nothing ever really happened. And that undoubtedly was on the mind of the governor and the mayor as well.
On reflection the best thing Bush could have done would have been to tell the mayor that if he would drive a school bus through NOLA to pick up evacuees, Bush would ride the back seat. Leadership. I don't see how else it could have been done.
Thanks for the backup. It is much appreciated. Yours was also a better explanation than mine...
I do like the way they talk themselfs into a mouth full of foot though
and when no one else can see, a slap upside their heads
The New Orleans director of Homeland Security failed to have any plan for a contingency that has been talked about for 50 years.
The NO Director of Homeland Security did indeed have a plan, however, he failed to execute it.
Remember when Eagles' quarterback Donovan McNabb wasn't putting up the stats - and Rush Limbaugh called out the media for rooting for him because he was a black quarterback? The blame was deflected onto the Eagles' receiving corps, and the Eagles brought in Terrell Owens as a free agent savior.This is the same thing. Noggin's administration is putting some pretty stinking stats up on the board, too. Only it won't be incomplete passes in a game. It looks like it'll be wall-to-wall body bags following the mayor's bad day. And, as usual, the blame is being deflected to the closest Republican.
The harder they try to deflect the blame, the harder it is going to be for the Democrats to avoid the stain this is going to leave on their hands.
The best thing the Democrats can do right now is pressure Blanco and Naggin to resign. Preferably their resignation would be over their admission to be currently carrying on an illicit affair concurrently with the police commissioner who would also resign. A good sex, or in this case, a bad sex scandal is great for covering up errors in judgment that endanger your constituents. The tabloids get distracted and nobody gets blamed.
Or if worse comes to worst, both of them can come out of the closet as unfortunate gay Americans, and all will be forgiven.
LOL!
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