Posted on 09/03/2005 12:14:14 PM PDT by joinedafterattack
MAYOR CRITICIZED EVEN BEFORE LEVY BREAK. National Hurricane Center Director had to call Nagin at home Saturday night to plead: "Get people out of New Orleans." "The criticisms of Nagin came from above as well. Numerous officials urged him to evacuate the city, but he worried about the legality of ordering people out when New Orleans has few safe hurricane shelters. Also, National Hurricane Center Director Max Mayfield in Miami called Nagin at home Saturday night and told him: Get people out of New Orleans.
''I could never sleep if I felt like I didn't do everything that I could to impress upon people the gravity of the situation,'' Mayfield said. ``New Orleans is never going to be the same.''
When a grim Nagin issued the mandatory evacuation order Sunday, he said: ``We are facing a storm that most of us have feared . . . God bless us.''
(Excerpt) Read more at philly.com ...
Ask "your friend" how in the hell Pres Bush is responsible for this red tape? It is both sides of the aisle that has for years been bloating government with all of these regulations, not the President.
Yup. That's what I was getting at. Move them north and put them in tent cities? Then what about the torrential rains & tornadoes spawned by the hurricane? In this case, we're talking about the total number of displaced persons from just the NO metro area (approx. 1.3 million) amounting to close to 30% of the the population of the entire state of Louisiana. This is one huge freaking mess to which I suspect no 'good solutions' are possible.
ping
City of Galveston had privatized social security plan too; Is there any way to rerun the La governor election to elect Bobby Jindal?
WTNT32 KNHC 271451
TCPAT2
BULLETIN
HURRICANE KATRINA ADVISORY NUMBER 17
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
10 AM CDT SAT AUG 27 2005
...CATEGORY THREE KATRINA MOVING WESTWARD IN THE SOUTHEASTERN GULF
OF MEXICO...EXPECTED TO TURN WEST-NORTHWESTWARD AND STRENGTHEN...
AT 10 AM CDT...1500Z...A HURRICANE WATCH IS IN EFFECT FOR THE
SOUTHEASTERN COAST OF LOUISIANA EAST OF MORGAN CITY TO THE MOUTH OF
THE PEARL RIVER...INCLUDING METROPOLITAN NEW ORLEANS AND LAKE
PONCHARTRAIN. A HURRICANE WATCH MEANS THAT HURRICANE CONDITIONS
ARE POSSIBLE WITHIN THE WATCH AREA...GENERALLY WITHIN 36 HOURS.
A HURRICANE WATCH WILL LIKELY BE REQUIRED FOR OTHER PORTIONS OF THE
NORTHERN GULF COAST LATER TODAY OR TONIGHT. INTERESTS IN THIS AREA
SHOULD MONITOR THE PROGRESS OF KATRINA.
AT 11 AM EDT...1500Z...THE TROPICAL STORM WARNING IN THE FLORIDA
KEYS IS DISCONTINUED FROM KEY WEST EASTWARD. A TROPICAL STORM
WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT WEST OF KEY WEST TO THE DRY TORTUGAS.
FOR STORM INFORMATION SPECIFIC TO YOUR AREA...INCLUDING POSSIBLE
INLAND WATCHES AND WARNINGS...PLEASE MONITOR PRODUCTS ISSUED
BY YOUR LOCAL WEATHER OFFICE.
AT 10 AM CDT...1500Z...THE CENTER OF HURRICANE KATRINA WAS LOCATED
NEAR LATITUDE 24.5 NORTH...LONGITUDE 85.0 WEST OR ABOUT 405
MILES... 655 KM...SOUTHEAST OF THE MOUTH OF THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER
AND ABOUT 200 MILES... 325 KM...WEST OF KEY WEST FLORIDA.
KATRINA IS MOVING TOWARD THE WEST NEAR 7 MPH...11 KM/HR. A GRADUAL
TURN TOWARD THE WEST-NORTHWEST IS EXPECTED DURING THE NEXT 24
HOURS.
MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE NEAR 115 MPH...185 KM/HR...WITH HIGHER
GUSTS. KATRINA IS A CATEGORY THREE HURRICANE ON THE SAFFIR-SIMPSON
SCALE. SOME STRENGTHENING IS FORECAST DURING THE NEXT 24 HOURS...
AND KATRINA COULD BECOME A CATEGORY FOUR HURRICANE.
HURRICANE FORCE WINDS EXTEND OUTWARD UP TO 40 MILES... 65 KM...
FROM THE CENTER...AND TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS EXTEND OUTWARD UP
TO 150 MILES...240 KM. THE AUTOMATED STATION AT THE DRY TORTUGAS
RECENTLY REPORTED SUSTAINED WINDS OF 48 MPH WITH A GUST TO 55 MPH.
ESTIMATED MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE IS 940 MB...27.76 INCHES.
STORM SURGE FLOODING ALONG THE SOUTHWESTERN COAST OF FLORIDA SHOULD
SUBSIDE TODAY.
KATRINA IS EXPECTED TO PRODUCE RAINFALL AMOUNTS OF 5 TO 10 INCHES
OVER WESTERN CUBA...AND 1 TO 3 INCHES OF RAINFALL IS EXPECTED OVER
THE YUCATAN PENINSULA. RAINFALL FROM KATRINA SHOULD BEGIN TO PUSH
INTO THE CENTRAL GULF COAST LATE SUNDAY AFTERNOON INTO SUNDAY
EVENING.
REPEATING THE 10 AM CDT POSITION...24.5 N... 85.0 W. MOVEMENT
TOWARD...WEST NEAR 7 MPH. MAXIMUM SUSTAINED
WINDS...115 MPH. MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE... 940 MB.
AN INTERMEDIATE ADVISORY WILL BE ISSUED BY THE NATIONAL
HURRICANE CENTER AT 1 PM CDT FOLLOWED BY THE NEXT
COMPLETE ADVISORY AT 4 PM CDT.
FORECASTER BEVEN
$$
WWWW
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flew out the friday night before the hurricane hit.There was plenty on tv there warning about the hurricane. Looking out the hotel window,there were lots of people by the pool and that whole last day of the trip,we flew out 6:30 ish pm,i never heard nor sensed any concern about the hurricane. Even the cab driver going to the hotel didn't bring it up in conversation.
I think most people here now know how to read these statements fairly clearly. Winds at 115 mph with a pressure of 940 mb. The stats for a Cat 3 are 111-130. The expected barometric pressure for a Cat 3 is 945-964 mb. This hurricane had wind speeds at the very low end of Cat 3 but had a barometric pressure in the Cat 4 range. Not a good mix. Moving at only 7 mph: means it has plenty of time to grow. No shear winds and nice hot Gulf waters: even very early Saturday it was obvious that this was a scary storm. Once this report came across and was evaluated, the mandatory evacuation should have happened.
bump for future reference
When pigs fly and sing!
No one has been held accountable for intelligence failures leading up to 9/11, and Sandy Berger appears poised to get a wrist-slapping for his theft and subsequent destruction of classified documents; will Nagin and Blanco be held to account for their incompetentnce and malfeasance? Don't hold your breath.....
Let,s hope this notion will prevail and guilty brought to justice, don,t count on it though.
"Actually no, based upon the hurricane strength and direction though we can make reasonable decisions. In the case of NO, officials knew the city couldn't take a hit or near hit from a large moving Cat 4, 5."
No one can take a hit from a cat 4 or 5. Now exactly where was Katrina three or four days prior to landfall? Now just how big was the possible area that it might hit remembering that it was four hundred miles across? Now, just how many people live in that area?
"Now, if you had that prior knowledge and were the Mayor or Governor or President of a Southeast Parish...what would you do?"
What would you do, move three or four million people? And, just exactly how would you do that? Where would you house them after you moved them? How would you feed them?
"First off, we could have put those people anywhere. If we wanted we could have left them on the side of a highway in Texas, or Arkansas, or Missouri. It would have been a vastly better situation."
Really? You're going to evacuate half the gulf coast and just leave them standing on the highway?
must ping
"Yup. That's what I was getting at. Move them north and put them in tent cities? Then what about the torrential rains & tornadoes spawned by the hurricane? In this case, we're talking about the total number of displaced persons from just the NO metro area (approx. 1.3 million) amounting to close to 30% of the the population of the entire state of Louisiana. This is one huge freaking mess to which I suspect no 'good solutions' are possible."
1.3 million? Probably three or four times that many. An evacuation of that magnitude would have had to have been started four or five days prior to landfall. You'd have to move the population of half the gulf coast. The possible band of landfall at four or five days out was huge. This storm was 400 miles across. If it's so important to evacuate NO, then it would also be important to evacuate any one who might be affected too.
Oh sure there's lots of 'good solutions'. But they're all in the minds of those who've never organized a church social let alone moving a couple of million people around four or five states.
The FACT (he admitted it) that a Mayor of the most vulnerable city in the country did not already know, before the crisis hit, exactly what his powers and options are for each stage of impending disaster indicates a SCANDALOUS neglect of elementary emergency planning. When I saw that quote I was just speechless and stunned -- how could a Mayor of a city like NOLA not even KNOW he had the power to order a mandatory evacuation in the face of a Cat 4/5 hurricane expected to bury the city under 20 feet of water???? I'm so sick of the clamor to blame Bush when the local and state authorities in LA have proved themselves so unbelievably inept and, yes, NEGLIGENT.
I'm not saying there could be any 'good' solution to such a crisis -- but the fact is, and it was obvious before this hurricane, that NOLA had a unique and extreme vulnerability and that MOST people had the means and resources to get themselves to a safer place (not perfectly safe, necessarily, but a lot safer than a below-sealevel city surrounded by water).
The big question for the Mayor and Governor, which is now being used shamelessly by the "Blame Bush" crowd against the feds, was how to save the 100,000 - 150,000 most vulnerable people who could not or would not save themselves. THAT problem, although still enormous and difficult, could have been addressed in advance to head off the result that should have been forseen, what we had going on in NOLA for the past week.
i guess what got me was his tirade at the FEDS--as far as i know the initial planning and recovery (day 1) are the locals--so yes both wear the crown!! and most of all History (new orleans) and mother nature! so lets quit the blame game and start fixing things up
And Nagin! Why still call him Mayor? There's no city for him to be mayor of!
Today's politicians have never heard of something called Nature, they never go outdoors and they never stop talking long enough to listen to or notice anyone or anything besides themselves. What a waste of taxpayer money and what dishonor to their responsiblities!!!!
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