What time did the 17th St. Canal Levee Breach Occur?

Question | 09/03/2005 | Self

[F105-D ThunderChief]

It's my understanding that the 17th St. canal levee breach occurred on Tuesday, August 30, 2005. Does anyone know the exact time? The Communist News Network aka (CNN) has embarked on the largest "Bush Bashing" campaign that I have seen to date. Once again rhetoric takes precedence over facts!

[schu]

The NY Times (ugh) has a good graphic on the canal issue. The way I read it is the Gov and the Mayor ignored or were unaware of the fact that the levees were only good for a Cat 3, and as predicted, they failed catastrophically when the storm force exceeded this rating.

My guess is the original rescue plan made no allowance for the city being 80% flooded, they expected that people would at least have shelter and the police/rescue teams could drive around in trucks dropping off food and water and helping those hurt.

This entire affair was a massive failure on the part of the local and state government, no imagination, no plan, no contingencies, a complete breakdown. There is no other way to look at it.

schu

[Dog Gone]

I haven't heard what the actual sustained winds in New Orleans were on Monday, but I doubt they were Cat 4, since the storm passed to the east of the city by at least a couple dozen miles and the storm was a Cat 3 at landfall in Mississippi.

And I don't think there was any rescue plan in place in advance at all. New Orleans has a "let the good times roll" attitude about everything. As long as it could keep the tourist dollars rolling in, the rest of the city was pretty much left to itself.

I will go look to see if I can find that graphic you're referring to.

[schu]

Hmmm, one has to believe that NOAA or the locals were monitoring the lake level and the levees, they knew at what point the levees would start to leak. So by mid day Monday after the original surge the alarm should/was probably sounded, unless there was a total breakdown in communications where nothing got out, which is unlikely. So they had their meeting where the engineers advised the authorities how bad it was, it would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall at that one!

All this explains why the Gov and the Mayor lost it, because they then knew what a catastrophe they were facing and how badly they had screwed up. They lost all hope at that point, so screaming and crying was all they knew how to do.

schu

[schu]

Of course the issue was not the winds, except to the degree that it raised the lake water level. That combined with the surge, which was right up the entry to the lake from the Gulf, was what caused the levees to breech, and the rest is history.

[commish]

the water eroded a Concrete wall? The levee that breached at the 17th street canal was resenctly upgraded to a concrete wall. Also, television did not report on the break until tuesday morning. There was a seperate levee break on Monday on another canal.

[Oatka]

"Yea, and on Sunday night Shep asked someone why they didn't heed the evacuation and he told Shep on air 'none of your fu**ing busniess!' "
Wonder where that guy is now?
Probably sleeping with the fishes.

Or on TV loudly complaining that the government isn't taking care of him.

[amigatec]

"Whorealdo" is not a credible journalist period!

I have not liked "Whorealdo" since 1978.

I was stationed in West Berlin, Whorealdo came over there and did some story about how 80% of the Berlin Brigade was on Hard Drugs.

On July 5th 1978 the entire Berlin Brigade had to pea in a cup to by checked for drugs!!!

Thanks Whorealdo, If I ever see you in person I am going to throw a cup of pi-- in your face!!!!

[schu]

Another thought, but I do not have anything to support it. It could be that FEMA was reluctant to send the NG and troops into the city until they knew it was not going to become a new flood plain for the Mississippi river, there were some rumors about the river levees giving away. The last thing they needed was 20,000 more folks in the town.

[cookcounty]

Late Monday, Aaron Brown of the Cynical Carpers Network stated that New Orleans had "this time" "dodged the bullet."

[centexan]

CNN was the first to report it at about 2 am Central time.

And they completely missed the impact of it. The hospital VP was on the phone with the late night anchor talking about the breech and water cascading down Canal St and he promptly went on to another story.

[centexan]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1472974/posts?page=2068#2055


BurbankKarl
What?

Is that woman on CNN speaking live?

She said the water around her hospital has been rising an inch ever five minutes and that they had NO water after the storm and now she has six feet around her?

They are contemplating AIRLIFTING 1000 patients out of Tulane Hospital!



2,086 posted on 08/30/2005 1:25:47 AM CDT by Howlin
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To: Howlin
Water rising at Tulane Hosp. at an in every 5 min. they may have to evac 1000 patients! On CNN now



2,087 posted on 08/30/2005 1:26:32 AM CDT by AggieMom x 3

[cookcounty]

"Does the media bear any responsibility for the people staying as they stated Katrina will not hit New Orleans directly?"

CNN Lied. People Died.

[cookcounty]

" Heck you had people on Bourbon Street on Monday celebrating because they thought New Orleans had dodged the bullet."

Exactly what I recall.

[Cvengr]

Army Corps of Engrs and the Navy had to develop Contingency of Operations Plans and Emergency Contingency Plans for both the port operations and Levee systems/pumping stations as part of Y2k funding requirements. The same was probably in effect for Louisiana and NO governments in receipt of federal funding. I suspect they're sitting on a shelf somewhere because of BRAC and downsizing of engineering within DOD, not to mention the "I manage COTS better than you can design it" mentality.

So I really wonder why there weren't more substantial immediate actions in place prior to the hurricane hitting, regardless of when the levees broke.

The SuperSack/Jersey turnpike barrier fill via SkyCrane is one of the nuttier ideas around when one lives on the bayou and Army Corps of Engineers should have access to some fairly heavy lift barge equipment or hovercraft even.

I've wondered why some LCACs weren't immediately dispatched from Little Creek, but at least the IwoJima is in route and might be equipped accordingly. Same situation on osmosis units for 5000 people a shot.

Of all the news coverage, I've been amazed to not have seen anything regarding dredging, barging, tow boats, or other commercial maritime activity to get bulk logistics rolling. Maybe the US simply lacks industrial capacity today.

[nicmarlo]

ya, Chief...and I think you're right...there's a great attempt, once again, with the media spinning instead of reporting.

Johnnie, thanks for posting the rest of that paragraph....it is an important piece of information that I should have included.

[MNJohnnie]

inly slowed FEMA's march to NO, since they didn't know how desperate NO would become until 24 hours after the storm hit

You do realize that FEMA had to manage rescue efforts over an area the size of Great Britain don't you? Why is it the rescue effort are going marvelously every where BUT New Orleans? Couldn't have anything to do with the LOCAL Govt being responsible for the 1st Responders? Couldn't be that the locals FAILED to provide the FEMA teams ADEQUATE PHYSICAL security now could it? Just what did all those Dept of Homeland Security $$$ given to the City of New Orleans since 9-11 BUY me? Can you imagine what would of happened if instead of a slowly developing Hurricane that most people fled from in advance, Al Qeda had blown up one of the levees with a fertilizer bomb on a normal business day?

[MNJohnnie]

It could be that FEMA was reluctant to send the NG

FEMA does not send the NG anywhere, the Governor of the State does at the request of Local authorities. OK? I am really getting frustrated with the level of ignorance being displayed by the "News Media" on this one. IF I can find this all out in about 15 mins on my computer, why can't professional journalists?

[Gunflint]

I loved that know-it-all morning guy on CNN, who was explaining how and why the levee broke, even though it was completely submerged.

[Just mythoughts]

You have far more 'grit' than me I have had to stay away from the tube most of today. Sadly these media peeps are doing their best to sow seeds of discontent.

[Freedom'sWorthIt]

Reported on other FR thread - don't have the link - that comedian Steve Harvey was being interviewed on one of the cable news channels - said he was with an old gentleman whose house was beside the place where the levee was breached (not sure which one) and that it was caused by a BARGE BREAKING LOOSE AND BREAKING THROUGH it. FWIW.