Posted on 09/02/2005 1:57:33 PM PDT by gitmo
The official version; then there's the in-the-trenches version
NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- Diverging views of a crumbling New Orleans emerged Thursday. The sanitized view came from federal officials at news conferences and television appearances. But the official line was contradicted by grittier, more desperate views from the shelters and the streets.
These conflicting views came within hours, sometimes minutes of each of each other, as reflected in CNN's transcripts. The speakers include Michael Brown, chief of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Homeland Security Director Michael Chertoff, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, evacuee Raymond Cooper, CNN correspondents and others. Here's what they had to say:
Conditions in the Convention Center
FEMA chief Brown: We learned about that (Thursday), so I have directed that we have all available resources to get that convention center to make sure that they have the food and water and medical care that they need. (See video of CNN asking why FEMA is clueless about conditions -- 2:11)
Mayor Nagin: The convention center is unsanitary and unsafe, and we are running out of supplies for the 15,000 to 20,000 people. (Hear Nagin's angry demand for soldiers. 1:04)
CNN Producer Kim Segal: It was chaos. There was nobody there, nobody in charge. And there was nobody giving even water. The children, you should see them, they're all just in tears. There are sick people. We saw... people who are dying in front of you.
Evacuee Raymond Cooper: Sir, you've got about 3,000 people here in this -- in the Convention Center right now. They're hungry. Don't have any food. We were told
(Excerpt) Read more at edition.cnn.com ...
"So he'd rather his people die than ride in an ugly school bus?!"
I haven't seen any indication that his thought processes have ever progressed to the point of embracing (or even indicating any awareness of) the consequences of his inaction, or the few stray, inane actions he has actually managed to take, in the runup and aftermath of this hurricane.
GOOD idea......But folks are dying. If they were not black response would have benn faster. Sorry, my opinion.
Bush dropped the ball on this one..........
Or "Bartman" from the Cubs game.
Do you have any evidence to support that opinion? From the reports I've seen, President Bush had to beg the Mayor of New Orleans to declare an emergency evacuation of the city. Does that mean the Mayor and all of his underlings are even more racist than President Bush?
"If they were not black response would have benn faster."
It took four days to get the National Guard into the affected areas of Florida after Andrew. It took longer than that, during the weeks and weeks of flooding in North Carolina after Floyd.
You're barking up the wrong tree by implying foot-dragging due to race, and even a cursory search on response times to prior emergencies would have proved this false.
I'm thinking about the longer history, not just this particular hurricane. You are right in pointing out the ineptitudes that exacerbated the results. So did a history of being lulled into complacency.
What amount of foresight could prevent what we see now? An earlier mobilization would have helped some, to be sure. I just don't see a city with the name "Big Easy" having an attitude of emergency about it. The looters would have remained, as well as those who chose to ride it out. The levees would still have broken. The amount of land covered by water and general destruction would have been slightly less, but that's about it.
If New Orleans is going to rebuld, they better do it right. And they better stay away from elected officials like those who were running the sinking city this time around.
"And they better stay away from elected officials like those who were running the sinking city this time around."
A populace unopposed to corruption is never going to elect a squeaky-clean government.
CNN is not a credible source.
THAT is where I had seen it! Thanks!
What facts bring you to this conclusion? I'd think it would be darned-near impossible to mobilize an army and get it across the country any faster.
Yes NO has always gottne lucky by living between two "normal" hurricane paths.
There are a number of things that could prevent what we see now:
1 - order evacuation sooner, they had the information by Friday but did nothing until Saturday
2 - use the public bus system and school buses to aid in the evacuation (there's another thread where somebody found the NOLA evacuation website and it says that this will be done in the event of recommended or mandatory evacuations, it wasn't)
3 - declare shelters while ordering the evacuation not hours before the hurricane hits
4 - prepare shelters to handle in the inbound refugees more than just opening the doors and telling people to bring food and water
5 - actually use the NG to aid in evacuation, prepare shelters, create C&C points with supplies, and just generally be ready
6 - now that I mentioned command and control points, does the mayor have one YET, how does anybody expect communication to work with no central area making sure communication is flowing
7 - send out the ACE to examine the levees before declaring the city had dodged anything
8 - (and this really should be 1) don't assume your luck will hold out forever, NO got hit by a hurricane 40 years ago, that proved it could happen
Any one of those steps had they been taken could have saved hundreds even thousands of lives all by itself.
The problem isn't the city not having an attitude of emergency, the problem is the mayor and governor dind't have an attitude of emergency. Sure the looters would have remained, but looters are a lot less of a problem when you've taken the steps necessary to get the vast majority of the regular people out, that would mean fewer people killed by the flood after the levees broke, fewer people killed by looters, and fewer people dieing in "shelters" that didn't really wind up sheltering anybody.
Yes the property destruction would have been about the same, but the life destruction would have been MUCH less, and it's the people that are irreplacable.
Hehe. That's why it ought to be a city of Freepers; people who are brimming with conserative energy, industry, and social stability. People who know how to help themselves and others without expecting the government to do their work and thinking for them. A squeaky clean government may not be possible, but a better one than than NOLA has today ought to be not only desired but also elected.
But I think I'll stay up north. I like the change of seasons.
Since the federal (and local!) officials won't report honestly, I think the news media should hire actors and give them the names of the officials and have them making confessions of guilt. It would by-pass the spin-meisters and performa a valuable public service.
(example): "Hello, I'm Herman Dipstick of FEMA. I've got to admit this storm caught us with our pants down. Between that and the quota hires, we didn't do a single thing to help, either before or after the storm..."
Thank you so much. It would appear at first glance that they skipped the evacuation plan, which does call for use of state and local public transportation services, and went straight to the 'refuge of last resort' plan.
"a better one than than NOLA has today ought to be not only desired but also elected."
Well, maybe I need to rephrase... those who have never been held responsible for their actions wouldn't recognize a responsible leader if he or she hit them over the head, and more than likely would resent such a leader and never vote them into office in the first place.
The problem with their government comes home to roost with the voters, in other words. Nothing will change until change comes to the outlook of the voters themselves.
And, sadly, I don't see that happening, myself. I'd be thrilled if I were to be proved wrong about this, though.
Screw "the city." How about adults making responsible individual decisions and taking care of themselves and their families.
As for the "city" itself, I note again the picture of dozens of school buses parked neatly in rows with water up to their steering wheels. If buses can evacuate the city now, buses could have evacuated the same people a week ago. For free.
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