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President Bush vows to fight border problems (close it ASAP please)
Newsmax.com ^ | 8-29-05

Posted on 08/29/2005 1:49:54 PM PDT by FeeinTennessee

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To: FeeinTennessee

What are these Bush Republicans afraid of? Dirty looks from the help at the country club?--PJB


161 posted on 08/29/2005 8:15:15 PM PDT by Afronaut (America is for Americans, but not anymore)
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To: moehoward
No doubt you have heard Bush and others say that our guest worker programs are broken and need to be fixed. I suspect that you think Bush is lying on this, but, unfortunately, you don't know what he is talking about.

The H2A and H2B have been around for quite a while and in the early years they worked well. These visa programs were broken incrementally thru time by the democrats as a way to benefit the unions. The democrats also would not allow these programs to evolve to meet our changing needs on guest workers.

So what you ended up with is the H2B that allows in only 66,000 workers that are snapped up in one day. The regulations on the H2A are 300 pages long and the large factory farms with staff lawyers can't navigate them, much less a small peach farmer in Georgia. The language protecting domestic workers is punative. Forget what the quota is, it is never reached.

Now look at tech worker and nurse visas which are more recently written at a time when the republicans had more influence over them. They are simple and user friedly. The regulations are short, one page.

When new guest worker plans are written, or the H2A is reformed, it would be important to do it with the newer H1b visa as a model.

Tancredo is not out to reform anything or make it simple. He only wants to snarl it up more, just like the democrats.

As for Tancredos method of using enforcement to down-size the illegals, it is un-enforcable. That is why he speaks of it in generalities and won't put the details down in writing.

162 posted on 08/29/2005 9:01:39 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
"risky gamble"

As opposed to Tancredo's plan which is guaranteed suicide.

163 posted on 08/29/2005 9:06:31 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: lionheart 247365
I have refused every solicitation for money until the potus fixes this problem with our borders .

BTTT

164 posted on 08/29/2005 9:25:05 PM PDT by janetgreen
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To: Ben Ficklin
"I suspect that you think Bush is lying on this, but, unfortunately, you don't know what he is talking about."

Prefacing your baseless assumption of my ignorance with your suspicion I think the President is lying. OK. I'd normally ask exactly what I've said to indicate such a thing, but given the fact you continue to repeat the same things despite being presented with facts to the contrary, it would seem facts play an unimportant role in what you are posting. So, I'll wish you good luck in supporting the program of your preference.
165 posted on 08/29/2005 9:45:00 PM PDT by moehoward
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To: moehoward
"what I've said to indicate such a thing"

Generally, most of rightfielders at FR are either poorly informed on the issue or have an agenda to mis-inform.

166 posted on 08/30/2005 3:28:30 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: gubamyster; All

Thanks for the ping. Very informative thread.


167 posted on 08/30/2005 4:48:06 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: Ben Ficklin
economic suicide for the country

How? You just got through insisting that it wouldn't deport any illegals, so that wouldn't destroy the economy. As for new arrivals, they would come in legally. If the conditions imposed for granting guest-worker status are too strict, it won't make anything worse, because the illegals would then continue to come in as they do now. Besides, those conditions can be loosened later on if needed, just as long as illegals don't qualify.

political suicide for the Republican Party

How? By carrying out the will of 75%-80% of the voting public? Yeah, that's always been the death knell for politicians.

Even if he did, that would not translate into Congrssional support for Tancredo.

Of course it would, which is the exact reason why he's not doing it, or even not arguing against it. He knows that even having it part of the public debate at all is dangerous, from his perspective, because that's the one the public would instantly flock to.

168 posted on 08/30/2005 5:59:09 AM PDT by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: Ben Ficklin
" Generally, most of rightfielders at FR are either poorly informed on the issue............"

Again, you could not be more wrong. Participants of the immigration threads are generally quite well informed. If not, are so in short order.

"............... or have an agenda to mis-inform "

Yes, some do.

169 posted on 08/30/2005 9:11:30 AM PDT by moehoward
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To: inquest
" Of course it would, which is the exact reason why he's not doing it, or even not arguing against it. He knows that even having it part of the public debate at all is dangerous, from his perspective, because that's the one the public would instantly flock to."

Absolutely right.

170 posted on 08/30/2005 9:22:10 AM PDT by moehoward
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To: Ben Ficklin
Tancredo has 72 votes in the House and 2 votes in the Senate.

And you know that.....how?

By the way, Tancredo's house immigration reform caucus has 81 members, 77 republicans and 4 democrats.

171 posted on 08/30/2005 12:12:18 PM PDT by RoyalsFan (Freepmail me if you want on my Kansas City Royals ping list)
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To: Ben Ficklin
Actually, I support Bush-Kyl-Cornyn. But I'm realistic enough to know that it will never have enough votes. The dems won't vote for it. Bush could kiss Tancredo's butt on the Lou Dobbs show and the Immigration Caucus would still not vote for it.

The democrats probably won't vote for it, saying it's to tough, which is a joke. But it really is the only bill that has a chance. McCain-Kennedy is to liberal for the house of representatives and Tancredo's bill is to conservative for the senate. If any of the current three are going to pass, it's going to be the Kyl-Cornyn amnesty.

172 posted on 08/30/2005 12:16:13 PM PDT by RoyalsFan (Freepmail me if you want on my Kansas City Royals ping list)
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To: RoyalsFan

The fact is that most pro-illegal posters on FR would be just fine with McKennedy passing as written. How... conservative?


173 posted on 08/31/2005 3:04:27 PM PDT by mthom
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To: Ben Ficklin
"As for Tancredos method of using enforcement to down-size the illegals, it is un-enforcable."

Are you saying immigration laws are unenforceable?
174 posted on 08/31/2005 3:05:56 PM PDT by mthom
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To: RoyalsFan
kyl/cornyn would be fine with me if it would be, when enacted, what it purports to be. A guest worker program. The problem is that when kyl/cornyn is stripped of its enforcement provisions and when legal immigration is radically increased it will be come something else. A permanent residency and citizenship granting machine with a preference for Hispanics.
175 posted on 09/02/2005 2:16:53 PM PDT by mthom
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To: moehoward
"participants of the immigration threads are generally quite well informed"

This thread contradicts you. The change from deportation to attrition as a means of removing illegals from the country is a major, major shift in policy for the anti-illegals. This thread points out that most here have no knowledge of this shift, or even what attrition is.

In the early days of the internet it was said that the internet would enable everyone to be well informed on issues and I can confirm that it does.

However, a phenomenon developed where-by not all took advantage of what the internet offers. Some began to seek info/websites that told them only what they want to hear. FR is such a place.

176 posted on 09/08/2005 4:17:11 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: mthom
"are you saying that immigration laws are un-enforcable?"

By turning to "attrition" as a means of removing illegals, Krekorian and Tancredo are saying immigration laws are un-enforcable.

What I am saying is that creating a guest worker program, piled on top of an indefinate method(attrition) of dealing with the existing illegals), is doubly un-enforcable.

177 posted on 09/08/2005 4:26:50 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: FeeinTennessee

Can somebody tell me why we have illegal aliens taking jobs that people feeding out of the gubmint trough should be doing?


178 posted on 09/08/2005 4:43:48 PM PDT by abigailsmybaby ("This is the sort of English up with which I will not put." Winston Churchill)
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To: Ben Ficklin
You do know that kyl/cornyn requires participants to apply from their home country dont you? Sounds like "attrition" to me.
179 posted on 09/08/2005 7:06:06 PM PDT by mthom
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To: Ben Ficklin

Whatever. That train-wreck made no sense whatsoever. It's wrong on this topic and as usual it's wrong on Tancredo.

Unless you can focus on the thread topic and interject facts, do not bother me with your nonsense.


180 posted on 09/08/2005 11:49:11 PM PDT by moehoward
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