Adam, Eve and T. Rex

How could Lucifer have been in Eden before it was created?

I'll bet that Lucifer has been many places...some before they were created and many after that. Lucifer has been around for a long time.

Satan is described as the "Prince of this World", John 12:31. Again in John 14:30. Again in John 16:11. In II Corinthians 4:4 he is called the God of this age. In Rev. 2:13 he is said to have an Earthly throne.

Any casual reading of scripture will lead you to the conclusion that Lucifer, Satan or whatever name you assign him, has been around a long time....and that would include pre-history.....or pre-Eden.

"Sin did not destroy a pre-Adamic world.

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

This Scripture is not speaking to or about pre-Adamic world specifically, rather it is the root of sin. v 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless DEATH reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of HIM That was to come.

Now a different glimpse of this thing called DEATH.
Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death HE might destroy him that had the power of DEATH that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily HE took not on Him the nature of angels; but He took on Him the seed of Abraham.

Now John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, (from above) he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4. Nicodemus saith unto Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

5. Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (again actually means from above)

8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things.

So you figure out when DEATH entered the scene, per Ezekiel and Isaiah account of the devil and that TIME does not fit within the days of creation of flesh man, or since. Had to be before no other way around it.

Sorry have no clue what you are saying. I am sure though you got a clip and snip of scripture to post.

"Then how did Eve and Adam sin???"

You mean you do not KNOW what the SIN was???? Why not?

Now WHO told you that Lucifer/the devil was in Eden before it Eden was created?

How about Lucifer/the devil was created before the "Eden".

Actually the prophecy against Tyre is what Ezekiel starts out with and historically it happened. What follows starting in chapter 12 is against the devil and to US one of the many roles he has been allowed to play, note the usage of the lower case k in king of tyre.

Look at that hurricane disaster, how long do you suppose it will take to clean up that mess, now if the rebellion describe in Ezekiel 28:12- and Isaiah 14:12 took place after the days of creation no way your mere 130 years would fit. The condition of this earth today has the prints of evidence, the fossil record and the upheaval of earth, that difference in the due North Pole and magnetic north as markers of HELLO see what evidence I left for you to discover.

Incorrect Translations
Well, let’s talk about the Creation. We sure do not want to be ignorant of the Creation like the scoffers are. Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." If you skip down to verse five and it says, "The evening and the morning were the first day." Notice the word the—T-H-E. In English that is called the definite article: the first day. Now this is from the King James Version of the Bible, which I use, and I think you would be smart to use if you speak English. Many of the newer translations have made some serious changes. I would just be real cautious if I was you. I used to say (I do collect Bibles—versions of Bibles), I used to say I am not afraid of them. The more I study this, the more afraid I am getting folks. They have made thousands of changes in some of these, some of them very serious. Now, if you do not read Greek or Hebrew, you might want to stick with the King James if all you can read is English, which is all I can read. Here is the Reviled Substandard Perversion - I was reading through my Bibles to see how they treated the Creation story, and I came to the RSV. They said, "And there was evening and there was morning one day." What happened to the first day? Well, now it is just one day. Down in verse 8 instead of saying "the second day", they said it was "a second day". Why did they do that? Well, the reason these guys did that, they do not believe in a literal six day creation. They believe in what is called the Gap Theory.

The Gap Theory
How many have ever heard of the Gap Theory before? The Gap Theory was invented in 1814 by a Scottish preacher named Chaulmers, probably a well-meaning guy who just wanted to stick millions of years into the Bible, that is all! Because everybody was teaching the earth is millions of years old and Chaulmers thought, "you know the Bible is going to be left out, unless we can figure out a way to make the Bible say the earth is billions of years old." So, he invented a gap between verse one and verse two. The Gap Theory teaches between the first two verses of Genesis, there is ample scope for all the geologic eras. They say that is where the pre-Adamite rebellion took place and a judgment of Lucifer happened. The Gap Theory is unscriptural, it is unscientific and it unnecessary. The world is not billions of years old and you do not need to stick a gap in there. The Gap Theory folks always say, "well, you know didn’t God tell Adam to replenish the earth?" Well, we will get into that in a minute about replenish the earth.

Solar Days or Ages
Then you have got these verses they use all the time to justify the Gap Theory, but the Bible says pretty clearly in Exodus 20:11, "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is." No gap there. He made everything in six days and God wrote this one on a rock with His own finger. This is part of the 10 commandments. Exodus 20, He must have known what He was talking about and He did not stutter. "Six days," that is the way He did it.

Death—Whose Fault?
Romans 5 tells us death came because of man’s sin. If the Gap Theory is true you had death before man ever got here. The Bible says it was death that came by sin, I Corinthians 15, same thing, "By man came death, in Adam all die." See, it is because of Adam’s sin; that is the reason we have death in the world today and that is why Christ died on the cross—He is the second Adam. I could preach for hours on that topic. Adam was the first man and he sinned and plunged the whole human race into death and suffering and misery and Christ came to redeem us from that.

Replenish or to Plenish?
The Gap Theory folks say, "well God told Adam to replenish the earth and the word replenish means to fill again." You get the glass, you say, "would you please replenish the glass for me, you know, fill it again." That is what the word means today, but in 1611 when the King James Version was translated, the word replenish was the proper word to use for the Hebrew word male [MAH lay] which means, "to fill". Go fill the glass! About 1650 (English language changes from time to time you know), the word replenish began to mean "fill it again." Today that is what it means, but in 1611 it just meant "go fill". There is a different Hebrew word, shana [SHAH nah], which means "to fill a second time, or to do something a second time." That is not what God told Adam to do. He told him to male the earth, "go fill the earth". So it was nothing to do with filling it again.

When Did Satan Fall?
In the book of Ezekiel, it tells us when Satan fell from heaven. Ezekiel 28, Lucifer is the theme of this chapter here; the Lord is talking about Lucifer. He says, "Thou hast been in Eden, the garden of God, every precious stone was thy covering," and then it describes him in his tabrets and his pipes and the gold and the beryl and all this stuff, and you get down to verse 15, it says, "...Till iniquity was found in thee." You see, Lucifer was in Eden until iniquity was found in him. Well, the Garden of Eden was a model Day six and Lucifer was in it before he fell, so he sure could not have fallen from heaven between verse one and verse two; the Garden of Eden had not been made yet. Lucifer was in the Garden of Eden as a nice guy, until iniquity was found in him. In Genesis 1:31, the last verse of the chapter, it says, "God saw everything and behold it was very good." It would not be very good if the Devil was running around as a bad guy, and Adam and Eve were standing on top of thousands of feet of sediment full of dead things. That would not be very good! The whole idea of a pre-Adamite rebellion and a judgment of Lucifer during a gap is bologna, it is unscriptural, it is unscientific, and it is unnecessary! It goes against many, many other scriptures.

I use the KJV, and even the original 16ll got a letter sent with it "warning" about translation of some things. That letter is in my revised KJV I purchased over 30 years ago.

Now a lot of time effort and MONEY has been invested to make Genesis say what MAN wants Genesis to say. I am NOT interested in what MAN says it says rather what was Written regarding The Beginning which is what Genesis means.

Now you are satisfied with what these claim so be it, I however have spent the better part of my life listening and following what man says, sadly not one of them spent TIME in preaching Christ's own words.

Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 alllll three are signs of things to watch for, and the first warning is Let no man deceived you.

Now for people to ignore the evidence, and spend all time money and effort to discredit what is visible evidence says more to me about their effort than credibility to what they say.

Christ did say it is NOT given for all to have understanding and that is their protection, and so be it. I do not expect to change your mind not my job. However, the debate is about "evolution" that ideology that has been allowed to be implanted upon our children over the past 40 years.

That fact alone tells me that the Heavenly Father has something against what "creationists" claim. No where in the Bible is there an example of where one who is following exactly the instruction of the HEavenly Father He replaced it with a lie, there was ALWAYS a warning sign posted before action took place.

I suspect you do not even know what the specific deception that Christ warned about will be, and it starts in Genesis to have understanding.

Well...

Since GOD told Adam not to do something, and then he did it anyway, I would suppose disobedience was the sin.

You got a different take on it?

"Well...

Since GOD told Adam not to do something, and then he did it anyway, I would suppose disobedience was the sin.

You got a different take on it?"

So much about a sin, and you think there is no mention of what it was?

No I am not going to tell you what it was, you want to know you dig it out.

Your reaction to the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil NOT being literal trees tells me there would be no point in discussing further what is said.

Forget the 'judging' thing since you didn't get it.

Any idea what THIS --> delusion might be?

2 Thessalonians 2

The Man of Lawlessness

¹Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, ²not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. ³Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness^[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. ⁴He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

⁵Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? ⁶And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. ⁷For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. ⁸And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. ⁹The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, ¹⁰and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. ¹¹For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie ¹²and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Stand Firm

¹³But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you^[b] to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. ¹⁴He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. ¹⁵So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings^[c] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

¹⁶May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, ¹⁷encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.

Your reaction to the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil NOT being literal trees tells me there would be no point in discussing further what is said.

OH?

How did I 'react'?

Uh......Dinosaurs are in The Book of Job. God himself decribes in detail animals that we call Apatasaurus and Plesiasaurus.
Not to mention.... science says that DNA is completely gone after 10000 years. So then why do we have Dinosaur DNA? It's broken down DNA ,but alot of it's there for us to see.

This web site tends to disagree with much of the assertions and assumptions found in the site which you have mentioned.

http://www.trueorigin.org/dating.asp

Some interesting points...

So then why do we have Dinosaur DNA?

(Sigh) We have what appears to be mineralized dinosaur soft tissue. However, we have not discovered any DNA in such tissue.

Really? Then why were they talking about cloning a Dinosaur just ten years ago? Please. It was stated that we were just a mere 50 years away from creating or cloning a dinosaur. And don't tell me that they were talking about creating DNA from scratch because it takes 1200-2000 bases of DNA to create ONE protein.

Really? Then why were they talking about cloning a Dinosaur just ten years ago?

Are you kidding me? Jurassic Park was just a movie.

Please. It was stated that we were just a mere 50 years away from creating or cloning a dinosaur.

Wherever did you get that idea?

Type Dinosaur cloning on your search engine, it's an idea some people look at seriously.
And, btw, we've discovered unmineralized soft tissue.
http://www.learnthebible.org/c_s_trex_soft_tissue_discovered.htm

This was also in the NYT and other publications as well.

Of course. What some men told as stories and was finally put to paper after man learned to write and has absolutely no basis in fact puts evolution in the soup?

We do see things differently. I think New Orleans would be the perfect primoridal soup bowl, maybe evolutionists can get it cordoned off and see what develops.

Any idea what THIS --> delusion might be? 2 Thessalonians 2

The Man of Lawlessness

Stand Firm

Any idea what THIS --> delusion might be?

2 Thessalonians 2