See post #287 and then you tell me.
Posted on 08/18/2005 7:39:37 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
On August 1, 2005, a group of reporters from Texas met with President Bush in the Roosevelt room for a roundtable interview. The President’s remarks suggest that he believes that both intelligent design and evolution should be taught so that “people are exposed to different schools of thought.” There have been so many articles since his remarks that it’s useful to read the relevant portion of published interview:
“Q: I wanted to ask you about the -- what seems to be a growing debate over evolution versus intelligent design. What are your personal views on that, and do you think both should be taught in public schools?The reporter got it right: there is an ongoing debate over intelligent design vs. evolution, at least in the media and in politics. There is not a debate in the greater scientific community about the validity of evolution. Further, the vast majority of scientists do not consider intelligent design as a viable alternative to evolution.THE PRESIDENT: I think -- as I said, harking back to my days as my governor -- both you and Herman are doing a fine job of dragging me back to the past. (Laughter.) Then, I said that, first of all, that decision should be made to local school districts, but I felt like both sides ought to be properly taught.
Q: Both sides should be properly taught?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, people -- so people can understand what the debate is about.
Q: So the answer accepts the validity of intelligent design as an alternative to evolution?
THE PRESIDENT: I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought, and I'm not suggesting -- you're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, and the answer is yes.”
(Transcript released by the White House and published on August 2, 2005 at WashingtonPost.com)
Dr. John Marburger III, Presidential Science Advisor, tried to dispel the impact of the President’s comments. On Aug. 2, The New York Times quoted a telephone interview with Marburger in which he said, “evolution is the cornerstone of modern biology” and “intelligent design is not a scientific concept.” Certainly, no one doubts where Marburger stands. One might question whether the President takes Marbuger’s scientific advice seriously, or is simply more concerned about pleasing a portion of the electorate.
Marburger also spoke with Dr. Marvin Cohen, President of the American Physical Society, and recipient of the National Medal of Science from President Bush in 2002. In an Aug. 4 release, Cohen explains that the APS is “…happy that the President’s recent comments on the theory of intelligent design have been clarified. As Presidential Science Advisor John Marburger has explained, President Bush does not regard intelligent design as science. If such things are to be taught in the public schools, they belong in a course on comparative religion, which is a particularly appropriate subject for our children given the present state of the world.” It would be better to hear this directly from the President. Likely, the intelligent design advocates will ignore Marburger’s explanation. Like the fabled little Dutch boy, Marburger, stuck his finger in the dike in hopes of saving the day.
Unlike the brave boy, Marburger did not prevent the flood of print and electronic coverage that ensued. From August 2 to the present, Google-News tracked more than 1,800 articles, commentaries, and letters to the editor on intelligent design. That’s about 120 per day since the President’s remarks.
In the days following the interview, major educational and scientific organizations issued statements that criticized the President for considering intelligent design as a viable alternative to evolution, for confusing religion with science, and for advocating that intelligent design be taught in schools.
“President Bush, in advocating that the concept of ‘intelligent design’ be taught alongside the theory of evolution, puts America’s schoolchildren at risk,” says Fred Spilhaus, Executive Director of the American Geophysical Union. “Americans will need basic understanding of science in order to participate effectively in the 21 st century world. It is essential that students on every level learn what science is and how scientific knowledge progresses.” (AGU, Aug. 2, 2005) AGU is a scientific society comprising 43,000 Earth and space scientists.
Likewise, the American Institute of Biological Sciences criticized the President: “Intelligent design is not a scientific theory and must not be taught in science classes,” said AIBS president Dr. Marvalee Wake. “If we want our students to be able to compete in the global economy, if we want to attract the next generation into the sciences, we must make sure that we are teaching them science. We simply cannot begin to introduce non-scientific concepts into the science curriculum.” (AIBS, Aug. 5, 2005) The American Institute of Biological Sciences was established as a national umbrella organization for the biological sciences in 1947 by 11 scientific societies as part of the National Academy of Sciences. An independent non-profit organization since 1954, it has grown to represent more than 80 professional societies and organizations with a combined membership exceeding 240,000 scientists and educators. (AIBS website)
Science educators are equally dismayed. “The National Science Teachers Association (NSTA), the world’s largest organization of science educators, is stunned and disappointed that President Bush is endorsing the teaching of intelligent design – effectively opening the door for nonscientific ideas to be taught in the nation’s K-12 science classrooms. We stand with the nation’s leading scientific organizations and scientists, including Dr. John Marburger, the president’s top science advisor, in stating that intelligent design is not science. Intelligent design has no place in the science classroom, said Gerry Wheeler, NSTA Executive Director.” (NSTA, Aug. 3, 2005) NSTA has 55,000 members who teach science in elementary, middle and high schools as well as college and universities.
The American Federation of Teachers, which represents 1.3 million pre-K through 12 th grade teachers, was even harsher. “President Bush’s misinformed comments on ‘intelligent design’ signal a huge step backward for science education in the United States. The president’s endorsement of such a discredited, nonscientific view is akin to suggesting that students be taught the ‘alternative theory’ that the earth is flat or that the sun revolves around the earth. Intelligent design does not belong in the science classroom because it is not science.” (AFT, Aug. 4, 2005)
There is a problem here. Obviously, scientists and educators understand that intelligent design has no place in the classroom. Intelligent design is, simply, one of several varieties of creationism that offer religious explanations for the origin and current condition of the natural world. As such, it does not merit being taught alongside evolution as a “school of thought.” There’s significant legal precedent from US Supreme Court that creationism - in any clothing - does not belong in the American classrooms. Teaching creationism is in violation of the separation of church and state, and has been ruled illegal by the US Supreme Court in several cases. It’s unfortunate that the President apparently does not understand that science is not equivalent to a belief system but is description of how the natural world works. Creationism, including intelligent design, is a religious point of view, not science.
At a time when industrial, academic, and business leaders are calling for more American students to train in engineering, mathematics, science and technology, we need to teach science in science classrooms. Let’s teach the scientific ideas that are supported by overwhelming evidence such as gravitation, relativity, quantum mechanics, and evolution. Creationist ideas/beliefs, such as intelligent design, don’t belong in science classrooms. In our haste to leave no child behind, let’s not leave science behind either.
Half the evos have gone loonie today.
See post #287 and then you tell me.
It's a spark plug for a Ford Model-T.
The dems only recently dove into the gay marriage hole. And only recently really lost power. This hole is as bad, only the Reps just don't think it's bad, like the Dems couldn't see their problem with Gay Marriage.
Nah, people are arguing that the fact genetic engineering is a form of intelligent design doesn't prove life is intelligently designed.
Bwahahahahaha!
"I'm ignorant of mathematics so I'm just going to assert 'Utter nonsense' and runaway!"
Yeah buddy, I'm waiting for your scintillating take down of modern mathematics. It is mathematics, so there can only be one unambiguous winner, though you will have to be rigorous for a change. If you don't like the mathematics that most of us use out here in the real world, you are free to create your own.
Heh. Nothing like the pride of willful ignorance; there really is no hope for humanity.
On the contrary, genetic engineering shows us conclusively that all transgenic life forms are intelligently designed.
What research are ID people doing? I see press releases. I see lawsuits. I see packed school boards and campaigning in churches. I see just enough quote mining of scientific documents to provide them with a veneer of believability to those who don't know anything about real science.
In comparison SETI actually does research. They've failed so far, but at some point I don't doubt they'll give up. While I doubt that religion will ever give up their faith in creationism, even if they have to rename it a couple more times.
SETI and ID are improperly lumped together. At the very least, where is the SETI program attempting to find the "intelligence" that created the universe? Maybe they got a couple of dishes aimed at a big church in Virgina somewhere trying to measure the spirit of God?
Just so I'm clear here, is there anyone who disagrees that genetic engineering = intelligent design?
Utter nonsense. We can **specifically** prove that all transgenic life forms have been intelligently designed.
Mapping the human genome. Learning to program DNA (e.g. recombinant). Learning how to gene-splice.
The entire scientific field of genetic engineering is about the intelligent design of life and life forms.
As are all the other of that particular creationist's comments. To be fair, one other creationists did mildly criticize his post. The others are silent.
/me looks around for a "time" dimension in the Invariance Theorem, without success. But then I already knew I would not find it there.
Even if we asserted finite bounds on space, any system more complex than several dozen bits would generate a probability that is approximately zero. Damn geometric complexity...
Why are you railing at this guy's lack of understanding?
You need to learn not to conflate 'improbable' and 'impossible'. It makes a big difference, particularly when we are trying to be all rigorous and scientific-like.
That's why we don't teach ID.
On the other hand, teaching students that ID is factually responsible for all transgenic life forms is spot on.
No, it's a fallacy of equivocation, an attempt to mislead. But I agree, since ID as in 'stealth creationism' is transparently silly, the only hope to get it across to any student with an ounce of sense is to mislead them.
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