Posted on 08/17/2005 7:44:13 AM PDT by PApatriot1
Did you hear the news? Evolution is no longer a theory. It’s a fact! I know, I can’t believe it either. Wait, you haven’t heard about this breakthrough discovery? Well, you might want to check with Professor Colin Purrington, an evolutionary biologist who teaches at Swarthmore College in Pennsylvania. Professor Purrington says, “Evolution is a ‘theory’ like gravity is a ‘theory.’”
(Excerpt) Read more at humaneventsonline.com ...
No. I state it as an observation.
Gravity is a force. It's constant (G) is 6.67300 × 10-11 m3 kg-1 s-2.
F=GMm/r^2
His comment is apples and oranges and reflects a misunderstanding of both biology and physics.
The pattern of the ERVs fits the predicted evolutionary tree for primates. Too much of a coincidence I am afraid.
2) There are NO examples of ‘shared errors’ linking mammals to other species.
Mammals are not a species and this is also a sidestep. The pattern of ERV's fits the evolutionary tree of primates and indicates they share common ancestory beyond doubt. This is just one line of evidence that coincidentally matches the primate tree.
3) The assertion that common ancestry is the only possible explanation for endogenous retroviruses in identical chromosome locations of different species is based SOLEY on the mere ASSUMPTION that they are nonfunctional
No, these ones are non-functional. It is not an assumption. They are not active in protein expression. Also even the rare ERV's that aid function are still due to past RV insertions. And still the pattern of these insertions matches the predicted primate tree of descent.
It is just as possible that that retroviruses are a degeneration of a designed system rather than having arisen through some random process.
You are throwing out all sorts of wild possibilities like someone thrashing around in deep water. There is no reason whatsoever that the pattern of ERVs in primate genomes would fit the predicted tree of descent of primates unless the ERV's were aquired through inheritance. Sorry its just too coincidental.
"My pastor says the Bible is fact"
The Bible is a book, tell that to your pastor.
He'll be nonplussed!
Complete nonsense. TOE most certainly predicts that a retroviral insertion will, in the absence of further transpositon, remain in an orthologous location.
The assertion that common ancestry is the only possible explanation for endogenous retroviruses in identical chromosome locations of different species is based SOLEY on the mere ASSUMPTION that they are nonfunctional, but the fact of the matter is that they are not all nonfunctional.
Since there is now evidence that the human/great ape lineage is losing retroviral elements, one wonders how they could be functional. In fact, most of our current retroviral insertions date back 25 million years. In addition, most retroviral insertions are heavily methylated, ruling out expression.
Noone expects to be able to. Evolution certainly doesn't say "radical" speciation is possible in limited time. You are confusing the theory of how evolution occurs with the fact that it has happened.
If we found a clear smooth set of transitional fossils from ape to man representing a generation at a time, would you accept evolution then? Or would you still demand that unless scientists turned a chimpanzee into a man in a lab it wasn't a fact?
Do you think craters on the moon were caused by meteors? Noone saw it. Noone can create a crater that size in a lab. So is it a fact?
Evolution describes species change. The inheritance of externally acquired viral DNA in primates and humans proves a common ancestor, and proves that evolution has in fact occurred.
There are NO examples of ‘shared errors’ linking mammals to other species
This is like the continual bleating of "missing link, missing link". The DNA viral evidence is very recent and still being found. I'm sure there will be other evidence found in other mammal species, but in the mean time the viral DNA shared in primates and humans still proves evolution is fact.
The assertion that common ancestry is the only possible explanation for endogenous retroviruses in identical chromosome locations of different species is based SOLEY on the mere ASSUMPTION that they are nonfunctional
Whether the viral DNA segments have any current function in primate and human DNA is irrelevant. The shear odds of virus DNA segments inserting themselves into the same place in primate/human DNA makes common ancestry the only viable answer. Anything else is wishful thinking.
"The Bible is a book, tell that to your pastor."
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My pastor will tell me that it is 66 books.
Were you meaning to say that the Bible is JUST a book?
"As for the hilarious contentions that the Bible reveals the existence of subatomic particles and that the earth is round (Isaiah actually says 'the circle of the earth', and the earth is most definitely not circular, it's nearly spherical), they appear to be the product of a hopeful imagination too little versed in scientific principles."
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I hope you never say that the sun rises or sets because the sun actually rising or setting is impossible. ;)
Tallhappy: The above is a common psalm among religious evolutionites. Another example how they don't understand science at all, in this case basic physics.
narby: You just saying it makes it so, eh.
Then you spout some gravity formulas. My point was that you claiming that all scientists who support evolution "don't understand science at all" is a ridiculous statement to make. You apparently think that the entire science community is some kind of giant conspiracy theory, and only you are fit to judge what is, and what is not, real science.
You need some tinfoil.
The problem was from the beginning that Evolution was used by as a club against religion by the likes of Thomas Huxley.
"Were you meaning to say that the Bible is JUST a book?"
Until you can prove by evidence, a.k.a. facts, yes ,it's just a book.
God did not "design" retro virus DNA into human/primate DNA. Viruses do that on their own. Every time you get a cold is proof that they do.
What you're claiming is that God "designed" human/primate DNA in the exact pattern that we would expect from a common ancestor just to fool us.
You're idea is God is really warped.
Ad hom. Do you have anything to say about evolution?
"Has this been shown?"
Indeed it has. Check out http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html. There are four examples listed.
" I must say that nearly all the pro-evolution arguers sound like Liberals in their approach to persuasion:
* Those who disagree with are stupid.
* Those who disagree with them are ignorant.
* Those who disagree with them are nut jobs.
* Those who disagree with them are evil."
Interesting, since that's how most folks here describe liberals (I happen to think they are merely deluded). The difference being that we aren't here to persuade liberals, but just to amuse ourselves. When you need to make a persuasive argument, different tactics are required, and a lot of people here try to treat everyone who disagrees with them the same, whether they are liberal, creationist, evolutionist, etc.
I try my best to enlighten in all cases.
"My faith does not stand or fall on the general theories of the origin of species or the Descent of Man."
As well it shouldn't. Learning how lightning happens doesn't make God any less powerful than learning how evolution works. Religious people shouldn't see it a such a threat.
And unsupported faith has been used against science and evolution since the beginning. What's your point?
Yes, science can be abused. And so can religion. I'll be bringing up Jim Jones and the KoolAid next.
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