Cypriot plane may have run out of fuel: source

AFP ^ | 16 Aug 2005 | AFP

[Fitzcarraldo]

The crash of a Cypriot airliner that killed 121 people near Athens likely occurred after it ran out of fuel while heading towards Athens International Airport, a senior government source said Tuesday.

"We surmise that the (Helios Airways) plane was heading towards Athens International Airport and that it ran out of fuel," the government official told AFP on condition of anonymity.

All 121 people aboard the aircraft died in the accident, which is believed to have occurred after a disastrous air supply failure almost two hours before it smashed into a mountain near the Greek capital.

Earlier on Tuesday officials said that the body of a stewardess was found near the remains of the cockpit, suggesting that she may have tried to grasp the plane's controls in a desperate bid to avert tragedy.

Autopsies on the first 25 of the bodies of the 121 passengers and crew show they were all alive -- although not necessarily conscious -- when it ploughed into a hillside near Athens, coroner Philippos Koutsaftis told AFP.

Information from Cyprus, where the plane originated, suggests that in addition to the two pilots, one other crew member had flying experience from small aircraft, the official said, without identifying the individual.

The Cypriot co-pilot's body was also recovered in the same area, though not that of the German pilot.

Also on Tuesday, the government denied press reports that it had at one point considered having the rogue plane shot down to prevent it from crashing into a populated area.

The Eleftherotypia newspaper had earlier quoted a senior government official saying: "Five more minutes and we would have eliminated it."

The Greek Prime Minister's office said that government spokesman Theodore Roussopoulos had already stressed the government's response was according to international conventions.

Roussopoulos on Sunday said that the plane had been considered an out-of-control "confirmed renegade" that could be shot down if it threatened to crash into a populated area.

But he said the government had "no such thought" of shooting down the aircraft, while a defence ministry source told AFP that "the question never arose".

[InsureAmerica]

let's all be careful not to succumb to paranoia.

[Fitzcarraldo]

Perhaps, if the pilot and co-pilot were incapacitated, someone else at the controls tried to bring the plane to a lower altitude, and miscalculated. The stress of the dive might have caused the plane to break up in midair, with enough fuel to cause the fires on the ground.

Did the F16 pilots observe the crash and events leading up to it?

[LikeLight]

I'm wondering why no video or cellphone pics of the plane before the crash have surfaced . . . it was apparently skimming pretty low over some towns before impact, accompanied by 2 F-16's . . . it must have been quite a sight and making a heck of a lot of noise . . . someone should have snapped a pic or rolled a video camera . . .

[Fitzcarraldo]

Another pic of the fire at the crash site:

The aircraft [5B-DBY] departed Larnaca, Cyprus at 9:07am local time for a scheduled passenger flight to Athens, Greece. Shortly after departure, at 9:37am, the aircraft entered Greek airspace, and over the next 30 minutes, the crew failed to make contact with Greek air traffic control. At 10:20am, Greek air traffic controllers contacted their Cypriot counterparts, who reported that the flight crew had reported a problem with the 737's air conditioning packs shortly before entering Greek airspace. Subsequent attempts to establish contact with the flight crew failed, and at 10:55am, two Greek F-16 fighter jets were scrambled to intercept the stricken airliner. The fighter jets established visual contact with the 737 at 11:20am over the Aegean Island of Kea, and subsequently reported that the Captain was not in the cockpit, the first officer was unconscious, slumped over the flight controls, and that the cabin oxygen masks appeared to be deployed. The F-16 jets continued to follow the aircraft as it started descending and, at 12:05pm local time, crashed into arid, mountainous terrain about 19 miles north of Athens' Eleftherios Venizelos Airport.

[Fitzcarraldo]

Picture for the above:

[MarMema]

Ron White is great! I really like him.

[nw_arizona_granny]

Ping

[nw_arizona_granny]

Ping

[ncpatriot]

And who put it on auto pilot in a circle?

[Mr. Silverback]

Good story, but creepy. Wonder if it happened like that on board that unfortunate jet.

One of the things most people didn't know about the Concorde was that it flew so high that an oxygen mask would be useless; one would need to be wearing a spacesuit like the ones flown by U-2 and SR-71 pilots, otherwise the low pressure would keep the mask from mating to the face and you wouldn't get any oxygen. The way one author (in By The Rivers of Babylon) described it, if they decompressed at cruising altitude the autopilot would begin a descent to below 10,000 feet, but as they leveled out, the unconscious crew would wake up, severely brain damaged, and look around at the cockpit without comprehension, "like Neanderthals in an Apollo capsule."

[Mr. Silverback]

Not being able to find the CVR, assuming they can't, is going to leave a big hole in the investigation. Even if the crew response to the original problem isn't on there, it could detail what the people in the cockpit were doing during the last 30 minutes of flight, and possibly who they were. If the CVR was just blown out of its box in the crash and destroyed, that's one thing. But if that plane was flying with the CVR actually removed, somebody's ass is grass. You know they'll be made an example of.

What sucks is that all these reports of passengers/flight attendants in the cockpit might be complete bovine effluents, in which case there will be nothing on the CVR but the background whine of all jet cockpits. I'd bet that the initial emergency is not on the tape.

[Mr. Silverback]

As someone pointed out in a later post, 300 pounds of kerosene-based jet fuel would be about 50 gallons--plenty to start a big ol' fire with.

But more to the point...I used to be a crew chief on the 737's big sister, the KC-145, and when I put my bird in Fuel shop, we would have a fuel truck come over and drain all the tanks. Then I'd go under the aircraft and drain the remaining fuel out of the tanks (sometimes quite a bit) with a fuel bowser. Then, when we got into fuel shop, the fuel tank guys would wear respirators and high boots while they worked because there would be pools of jet fuel at the bottom of the tanks, hiding in the recesses that couldn't be drained by the manual drain valve I had used. Not much (probaly less than 20 gallons in the whole plane) but plenty for starting a fire, and that was after I spent an hour doing a manual drain job.

Trust me, there was plenty of fuel in those tanks to start a fire with, and plenty of fumes, too.

[Down South P.E.]

There was likely a good bit of hydraulic oil and engine fluids associated with this plane as well.

[DTA]

>>>>>>>OK....but how come, Boeing Aircraft, hasn't issued a statement, on the incident....the silence is deafening...usually Boeing is quick off the mark to defend their products, whenever there is the slightest hint that their A/C, was mechanically unsound. <<<<<

An excellent observation, thank you. It seems that both Boeing and Locheed Martin equipment worked well.

[AmericanDave]

2100 lbs would be about 1000 lbs per tank left (the center tank is drained first). At different pitch attitudes it might uncover the pumps and have fuel starvation. Also Probably out of balance (trim) by then with no pilot inputs, one engine could have gone first causing a loss of control. The fuel quantity gauge error of each 10,000 lb (full) tank is 10% which means between 0 and 1,000 lbs left in each tank! I'd never plan to get anywhere with that little fuel in a 737.

[AmericanDave]

"The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature"

Thanks for the quote! Applies to the Sheehan mom too!

[AmericanDave]

Good point, and the fumes are much more volatile especially after being sprayed over the landscape by impact!

[monday]

"Out of fuel, out of oxygen, heat failed, people froze to death....round-up the usual cover-ups....like I wrote a couple days ago.....it was shot down"

Actually it was abducted by aliens. Everyone was probed then put into a deep trance so they would forget about being abducted, only the aliens forgot to leave someone awake to fly the plane.

OOps, I wasn't supposed to say anything, now I guess I will have to hunt each of you down and kill you in order to keep the truth from coming out;o)