The Case Against Intelligent Design. The Faith That Dare Not Speak Its Name.

The New Republic ^ | 8/11/05 | Jerry Coyne

[hc87]

Exactly eighty years after the Scopes "monkey trial" in Dayton, Tennessee, history is about to repeat itself. In a courtroom in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania in late September, scientists and creationists will square off about whether and how high school students in Dover, Pennsylvania will learn about biological evolution. One would have assumed that these battles were over, but that is to underestimate the fury (and the ingenuity) of creationists scorned.

The Scopes trial of our day--Kitzmiller, et al v. Dover Area School District et al--began innocuously...

[Dimensio]

Even if they somehow "prove" that man evolved from soup

Expecting things to be "proven" in science only shows that you don't understand the scientific method.

they'll still have to explain who made the soup

1) Why would there necessarily have to be a "who"?

2) What's this about a soup?

3) Why would the means by which humans and all other life existing today evolved from a common ancestor be dependent on how the common ancestor came to exist in the first place?

[balrog666]

That's good soup!

[b_sharp]

"Even if they somehow "prove" that man evolved from soup...they'll still have to explain who made the soup

Who? How about nobody.

"...and the ingredients for the soup....and the recipe for the soup....and why.

Nope. All that is necessary is for it to be shown possible.

[Dimensio]

The Kansas school board is in the process of changing their definition of "science" to include ID. A handful of elected religious ideologues cramming their viewpoint down an academic community.

If that doesn't involve the scientific community, then I don't know what does.

I must respectfully disagree. The scientific community was in no way involved with the changing of the science standards in Kansas. The fact that the science standards are to be changed is proof positive that the science community -- or anyone with even an iota of scientific knowledge -- wasn't involved at all, despite their protests.

[b_sharp]

It was above my head.

[Junior]

I would assume if they were Ph.D.s they would be identified as such, rather than as "Ph.D.-level." The latter could be doctoral candidates.

For an entire rundown on the deceit used in the ad, please see Doubting Darwinism Through Creative License. It includes interviews with some of the researchers who refute the information presented in the ad.

[tallhappy]

That may be your opinion; I, however, disagree. ID is not science, and should not be taught in science classes.

So the federal government should set curricula for all local school boards?

[malakhi]

2) What's this about a soup?

There are differing theories. Some say the soup was plain old chicken soup. Some say chicken noodle, or chicken dumpling. I think it was matzah ball soup, myself. And we needn't even comment on those who think it was some sort of chowder.

[b_sharp]

How many Ph.D.s have not signed that little statement?

[malakhi]

So the federal government should set curricula for all local school boards?

The states should be setting standards. But if the schools are accepting federal money, then federal standards are part-and-parcel with that.

I suppose you'd have no objection to a public school in Dearborn, MI, being run as a Wahhabi madrassa? "Local control" and all that...

[foreshadowed at waco]

Ping for later reading.

[Vaquero]

Why does ones faith in a supreme being have to be involve rote acceptance of scribblings from bronze age denizens.

Why cant those stories and parables be just that....and let science just be science. A lot of religious folks could learn something from modern Catholic doctrine.

[Mush MouthPhil]

"Evolution is stupid."
You said it. And unscientific,too--it defies the science of logic.

[colorado tanker]

Heisenberg is not the issue.

I'm uncertain about that.

[Sloth]

So you're only personally exempted from certain laws of physics

Even the reference to "laws" implies the existence of a Legislator.

[VadeRetro]

Those of us on FR who have been arguing this issue for months and years have been trying to prevent this fight from escalating, because we can see the inevitable outcome. We may have reduced the eventual damage a bit, but there will be damage to the conservative cause over this issue.

Nailed! This has been my nightmare for over six years now and it's here.

[silverleaf]

Ok, forget about chaos and where it starts and how it ends. Forget about how "time" is created....and why.

Show me how matter appears from nothing.

Matter, such as the "soup" of cosmos-orginated elements that arrived on earth, "primordial "soup" from which our molecules bumped and bounced and ultimately sought each other to bind and blend, to evolve via trillions of successes and errors - to ultimately arrive at a unique DNA code for every living being, each of which replicates with yet more unique DNA codes...to produce a dinsaur, a blue whale, or a blue-eyed red haired human baby with fingerprints never before seen in any creature.

You've got 10 million years to run the best computer simulations you can. to test your theory that everything came from nothing and is not, perhaps never was, random or without reason or desire to thrive.

Show me how to create consciousness from primordial soup.

Show how the human eye developed by chance from primordial soup.

Show me how mathematical precisions that can now be detected in the operations of the universe- appeared from chaos, and where the chaos came from. What scientific theory describes mathematics originating from....nothing.

Waiting.

Meanwhile, the "old One" (Einstein's term for God) says - NO SOUP FOR YOU.

[Junior]

Quite a few. And the ones who did were almost all not from evolutionary disciplines, so their "authority" in this regard was moot.

[b_sharp]

"Even the reference to "laws" implies the existence of a Legislator.

Hardly. It's a simple result of the use of language.

[Junior]

Mmmmm... chowder...