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WSJ: One Simple Rate - A flat tax would uleash a stupendous economic boom, by Steve Forbes
Wall Street Journal ^ | August 15, 2005 | STEVE FORBES

Posted on 08/15/2005 5:55:06 AM PDT by OESY

A major domestic battle looms this fall, when tax reform-- a centerpiece of the president's bold domestic agenda-- will finally be on the table. The President's Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform is expected to release its findings by the end of September. After the political shellacking the White House took on Social Security, the administration will be strongly tempted to take a conciliatory path that supports only superficial reforms, essentially preserving the status quo of our hideous income tax code.

Such a course would have perilous consequences, economically and politically. In fact, the administration has an opportunity here to boldly retake the initiative, to recover lost political support and thrust an already decent economy into high gear and, at the same time, make America better able to meet intensifying competition from China, India and others. How? By junking the entire federal income tax code and starting over with a flat tax. A growing number of countries are doing this -- and so should we.

The current system is beyond redemption, a beast whose complexity, confusion and outright unfairness have corrupted our economy and society. Americans waste more than $200 billion and over six billion hours each year filling out tax forms. They engage in all kinds of useless economic activity intended to take advantage of the code's complicated maze of deductions and to reduce taxes -- from deducting donations of old socks to making unwanted investments. The waste of brainpower -- at a time of increasing global competition -- is incalculable.

The code corrupts our system of government by encouraging the crassest political conduct and by creating a massive, intrusive federal bureaucracy. One-sixth of the private-sector employees in Washington are employed by the lobbying industry. One-half of their efforts are directed at wrangling changes in the tax code....

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bush; consumptiontax; economy; fairtax; flattax; forbes; jobs; profits; steveforbes; taxes; taxreform
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To: sitetest
It surprises me that a long-time poster like yourself is unaware of the custom at FR of honoring requests from other posters not to post to them.

What? That's a new one on me.

301 posted on 08/16/2005 11:20:28 AM PDT by groanup (shred for Ian)
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To: sitetest

You speak of treating each other with civility??? Great s-test!! You might take note of some of your own postings.

I perefer to think of FR as a forum for free expression of ideas some of which will conflict with yours in a "hurtful" manner apparently.

If you don't wish to return the post, then don't. You might as well stop lecturing me like a six-year old, too. I'm far too old for that to be effective especially from someone whose views are obviously so different from my own.


302 posted on 08/16/2005 11:21:19 AM PDT by pigdog
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To: servantboy777

The tax base for a NRST is the tax on sales or on the products thereof, not individuals, so it is important if we are to discuss a subject to get the definitions correct, or, as it is done in a legal document, set the definitions beforehand, for if we wish to engage in constructive discourse we must have a mutual understanding of terms, even if that means you are incorrect. Or if you wish to write in a language other that English, be my guest.


303 posted on 08/16/2005 11:23:28 AM PDT by Final Authority
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To: pigdog
You might as well stop lecturing me like a six-year old, too.
Stop acting like one.
304 posted on 08/16/2005 11:24:00 AM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: pigdog

You can look for them, I have discussed the revenue neutral calculations and asked questions there.

I have never brought up homes, or any of the other stuff shich I understand the FairTax opinion on these items.

Actually none of this other stuff matters unless prices at the retail level go down by enough to alow the FairTax to be added with no net effect. So that is where I am concentrating my study at the moment.

If prices don't nosedive by 20-25% within a month of the FairTax starting we'd be screwed.


305 posted on 08/16/2005 11:24:04 AM PDT by RobFromGa (Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran-- what are we waiting for?)
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To: GVgirl
Our current system couldn't be improved upon by the devil himself. But I don't know which is worse. The government knowing how much money I make, or where I spend it?

You mean you would rather the government know you have X dollars invested with Your Broker, Inc. than to know you shop at Wal-mart? There's no comparison, in my book.

306 posted on 08/16/2005 11:24:42 AM PDT by rwrcpa1 (April 15. Let's make it just another day.)
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To: RobbyS

I don't remember seeing anything about currency in the Forbes article. Where was that, exactly?


307 posted on 08/16/2005 11:25:35 AM PDT by rwrcpa1 (April 15. Let's make it just another day.)
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To: pigdog; Your Nightmare; sitetest
under tha FariTax.

This is my favorite typo of the afternoon, by pigdog, the post checker.

308 posted on 08/16/2005 11:27:41 AM PDT by RobFromGa (Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran-- what are we waiting for?)
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To: pigdog
What's your point, Looey ... self-employment income and income in general are different things. Self-employment income is just about the equivalent of wages which is one of the reasons it is taxed that way.

Help me understand this. Isn't the reporting of income just for the reason of letting the government know how much to credit you for SS purposes. If so, I would think people would be happy to go to that trouble. It is not as if they have to send in money. However, wouldn't we have to maintain records to validate what we report?

309 posted on 08/16/2005 11:30:25 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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To: RobFromGa

You know the CPA and tax lawyer lobby will fight the flat tax big time...they are the leading opponents for it.


310 posted on 08/16/2005 11:40:16 AM PDT by BurbankKarl
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To: RobFromGa

That's funnee, Rob ... good on ya'.


311 posted on 08/16/2005 12:11:34 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: RobFromGa
Looking at this as a businessman, say I have employees that make a total of $1 million per year right now. At the present time, I am writing checks totalling about $150,000 to the FedGov for FICA, about $200,000 for federal withholding, and about $60,000 for state tax withholding. The remainder I write checks to my employees. My out of pocket cost is the $1 million.

Under FairTax I will write out the same check for $1 million but it will all be to my employees directly. My payroll costs haven't changed. How am I able to reduce my prices by 20%+ allowing prices to stay the same when the 30% FairTax is added?

You didn't write checks for $1,000,000 before. You wrote checks for $1,075,000, because the employer FICA isn't withheld from the employees' paycheck. That's $75,000 savings you can pass along right there. You also have to take into account the reduction in prices your suppliers are able to give. And, most importantly you have to consider the income taxes and FICA taxes on your own income, whether self-employment tax or the FICA tax on the salary you give yourself.

I believe you may have said before that you didn't want to be a tax collector for the feds? Do you realize from your example that you already ARE a tax collector for the feds? $350,000 worth.

Also, you are using the tax inclusive rate on your prices dropping but the tax exclusive rate for the Fair Tax rate, which makes your claim appear more "impossible" in your eyes, and in the eyes of those you are trying to influence.

312 posted on 08/16/2005 12:52:00 PM PDT by rwrcpa1 (April 15. Let's make it just another day.)
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To: texpat72

That's 80% of income taxes.


313 posted on 08/16/2005 12:54:45 PM PDT by rwrcpa1 (April 15. Let's make it just another day.)
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To: RobFromGa
Actually none of this other stuff matters unless prices at the retail level go down by enough to alow the FairTax to be added with no net effect. So that is where I am concentrating my study at the moment. If prices don't nosedive by 20-25% within a month of the FairTax starting we'd be screwed.

They won't and we will be. Your previous analysis of the impact on business is correct and even if you look at businesses with low labor costs the results are very similar.

314 posted on 08/16/2005 12:57:11 PM PDT by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: rwrcpa1; RobFromGa
You didn't write checks for $1,000,000 before. You wrote checks for $1,075,000, because the employer FICA isn't withheld from the employees' paycheck. That's $75,000 savings you can pass along right there.
If the FairTax is truly revenue neutral, there can be no overall savings by someone not paying a tax they were paying before. If they aren't paying with the FairTax, somebody else is - most likely RobFromGa's employee's and RobFromGa himself. They will need the money you say than can use to reduce prices to pay the tax they will now be paying directly.
315 posted on 08/16/2005 1:33:38 PM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

It's up to the employer(business) to maintain the records and report wages (or, for some, self-employment income - the wage equivalent).

Other types of income, though, are not reported - and, you're right; no payments.


316 posted on 08/16/2005 1:39:25 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: RobFromGa
This money (7.65%) will be paid to the employee instead of the govt (he is really paying it now, but wage earners feel better thinking that their employer is getting stuck with it). No cost saving to the business here.

There is nothing that says this money will have to be paid to the employee.

317 posted on 08/16/2005 1:41:15 PM PDT by rwrcpa1 (April 15. Let's make it just another day.)
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To: Your Nightmare

Certainly there can be Nightie, you jus haven't thought that one through I guess.


318 posted on 08/16/2005 1:41:43 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: RobFromGa

And therefore my feeling that the CPA's will come out of this okay.


319 posted on 08/16/2005 1:42:39 PM PDT by rwrcpa1 (April 15. Let's make it just another day.)
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To: pigdog
Certainly there can be Nightie, you jus haven't thought that one through I guess.
Maybe you would like to explain how.
320 posted on 08/16/2005 1:55:20 PM PDT by Your Nightmare
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