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Redesign Is Seen for Next Craft, NASA Aides Say
NYT ^ | August 2, 2005 | WILLIAM J. BROAD

Posted on 08/02/2005 8:56:13 AM PDT by jbstrick

For its next generation of space vehicles, NASA has decided to abandon the design principles that went into the aging space shuttle, agency officials and private experts say.

Instead, they say, the new vehicles will rearrange the shuttle's components into a safer, more powerful family of traditional rockets...

..."As long as we put the crew and the valuable cargo up above wherever the tanks are, we don't care what they shed," he said. "They can have dandruff all day long."...

...A main advantage, supporters say, is that the big rocket could lift five or six times as much cargo as the shuttle (roughly 100 tons versus 20 tons), making it the world's most powerful space vehicle. In theory, it would be strong enough to haul into orbit whole spaceships destined for the Moon, Mars and beyond....

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: duh; nasa; rocketscience; shuttle
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To: bobjam
The genius behind the space shuttle was that 3 of the 4 principal components are completely reusable.

It would be if the components were actually reusable. It is probably more appropriate to say they are refurbishable.

First of all, dropping expensive aerospace hardware into the ocean is not conducive to reusability. The SRBs need a lot of work to get them back into shape.

Next, the space shuttle main engine needs insanely high chamber pressures to generate the thrust required at the pad and provide the necessary throttleability. That drives its operations cost right out of the realm of reasonable reuseability.

Then there is the reentry profile/thermal protection system. Sure it is reusability, but it is so labor intensive that you would be better off using ablatives.

Shuttle reusability is an example of losing sight of your goal. The goal isn't reusability for the sake of reusability. Reusability has to pay for itself. The real goal you are trying to reach with reusability is reduced operations costs. NASA implemented reusable systems that were more expensive than the expendable systems they were intended to replace, blindly assuming that because they were reusable they would magically be cheaper.

Now they are retreating headlong from reusability, having "proven" that it doesn't work. They have proven anything except that enough bad management can sour even the best ideas.

Almost no system on the shuttle is actually useful moving forward, because almost every one was developed with scant attention paid to how much it would cost to maintain and operate it.

121 posted on 08/02/2005 11:50:50 AM PDT by hopespringseternal (</i>)
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To: null and void

You're right...too bad this man is still a household name in the news....he should be confined to the "scrapheap of liberal ideals" (and inept losers) as has been so aptly said.


122 posted on 08/02/2005 11:54:33 AM PDT by Gaffer
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Comment #123 Removed by Moderator

To: glorgau

That's a whole lot of tungsten Hypervelocity Rod Bundles

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2005/050608-gods-rods.htm


124 posted on 08/02/2005 12:11:20 PM PDT by MD_Willington_1976
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To: Boundless
That Crew Veh looks like it's stacked on an SRB stage 1. I see an apparent escape rocket assy on the cap. This looks entirely ill-considered, as solids can't be throttled or shut down, and in an emergency could plow right into the capsule's escape assy.

It would be relatively easy to have "drogue" panels deploy at upper-stage separation to provide the necessary drag if the escape tower can't pull the upper command module away fast enough. Or even have the service module thrusters kick into reverse at separation of the upper module.

This is not difficult.

Albeit, definitionally, it IS ROCKET SCIENCE! :-)

125 posted on 08/02/2005 12:21:29 PM PDT by Paul Ross (Strict Constructionist Definition=Someone who doesn't hallucinate when reading the Constitution)
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To: null and void
Why a 747? Aren't there any B-52's available?...

Even worse problems with the landing gear and fuselage clearance. Ever walk under a BUFF?

126 posted on 08/02/2005 12:23:13 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: Cyber Liberty

I still hate the idea of using solid rocket booters to carry people. Something wrong with using power that can't be throttled.

---

What about being able to be gimbled?


127 posted on 08/02/2005 12:24:47 PM PDT by BoBToMatoE
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To: denydenydeny
Along with...I dunno...large tungsten rods?

Nah, the military already has launch vehicles that can get those into orbit. They need not be all that large anyway.

128 posted on 08/02/2005 12:25:41 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: tscislaw

The throttle the main engines on the current shuttle to 75% to conserve fuel. I guess that would be one good reason.


129 posted on 08/02/2005 12:37:54 PM PDT by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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To: jbstrick
For its next generation of space vehicles, NASA has decided to abandon the design principles that went into the aging space shuttle,

Well if they didn't, then it wouldn't be a redesign.

130 posted on 08/02/2005 12:41:30 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: RightWhale

The Russians almost landed in China once, and they rolled down a hill and spent the night, nearly freezing, keeping the wolves at bay with their pistol.


131 posted on 08/02/2005 12:45:36 PM PDT by Central Scrutiniser (Apply generously to sunburned or irritated skin as needed)
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To: bobbdobbs
So the escape rocket only needs to briefly pull the crew capsule at a bit over 5g's. It's not that hard to do for a short burst.

The Apollo escape system generated something like 6.5g for 15 or 20 seconds. It would have been unpleasant for the crew, but not as bad as the alternative.

132 posted on 08/02/2005 12:45:43 PM PDT by jboot (Faith is not a work)
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To: null and void; El Gato
Why a 747? Aren't there any B-52's available?...

Branson, Burt Rutan's customer/partner in Virgin Galactic, also owns Virgin Atlantic. Therefore he has access to a few 747s that might otherwise be mothballed or sold at some point.

Branson is rich and powerful, but somehow I doubt he has any B52s in his stable. And uncle doesn't sell those in flyable condition, only as scrap.

133 posted on 08/02/2005 12:51:09 PM PDT by Phsstpok (There are lies, damned lies, statistics and presentation graphics, in descending order of truth)
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To: jboot
The Apollo escape system generated something like 6.5g for 15 or 20 seconds.

Thats right, it generated something like 150,000lb of thrust.

Folks here are kinda silly thinking that their back of the hand calculations are better than the hours of computer time and years of experience that these ROCKET SCIENTISTS have. Of course they have thought these things through. This is old technology, nothing new, tried and true.

134 posted on 08/02/2005 12:54:10 PM PDT by Paradox (John Bolton: "How am I supposed to live without U(n)".)
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To: El Gato; bobjam
Interesting. Maybe you could take a 12 inch oilfield valve, one with a big-ass handwheel, and mount it on the top of the booster.

Then, have a crew member get out there and crank the valve in order to control the thrust.

135 posted on 08/02/2005 1:11:38 PM PDT by Erasmus (A strong bow is a terrible thing to waste. Give to the Antonio Janigro College Fund.)
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To: jbstrick

Its a great idea, what I've been for all along.

The Russians had a good model with Energiya by having the rockets attached to the ET and having the shuttle ride as cargo.

Having a simple crew launch vehicle (with escape tower rocket) is prudent, and the way to go. Sending people up should be cheap and easy, spend the money and technology once you are up there.


136 posted on 08/02/2005 1:22:17 PM PDT by Central Scrutiniser (Apply generously to sunburned or irritated skin as needed)
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To: jboot

The Russians had a launch where the escape rocket was triggered as the rest of the rocket exploded.

Saved their lives.


137 posted on 08/02/2005 1:23:45 PM PDT by Central Scrutiniser (Apply generously to sunburned or irritated skin as needed)
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To: Central Scrutiniser

One of the astronauts will repair the hanging chads tomorrow. First he will try pulling them out with his fingers. If that doesn't work he will try a pair of pliers. If that doesn't work he will use a hacksaw blade they have kluged to a handle aboard the ISS. If that doesn't work he will hit it with a piece of shuttle tank foam.


138 posted on 08/02/2005 1:55:01 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and open the Land Office)
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To: RightWhale

*snrk*


139 posted on 08/02/2005 2:02:57 PM PDT by null and void (Be vewwy vewwy qwiet, we're hunting wahabbits...)
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To: All

What happened to the next generation of reusable craft?

What happened to the all in one using a scamjet?

It seems if we want to develope the ECCONOMY and industry of space we need a craft that can travel with the ease of a cargo airplane.


140 posted on 08/02/2005 2:17:12 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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