Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 12

"Girls from this kind of family are protected and are indulged and don't get exposed to the "streets"."

So why is she missing?

Well...shoot...was going to bed, but... There's no sand around my head. I know for a fact that most of the kids from small southern towns are not AS aware of potential threats to their safety as kids from larger cities. This isn't that hard to believe. Also, please not that I never said there was no crime, just a lot less of it. Kids being "messed up" happens here too. Rapes and murders, however, are less here than in big cities. Crime statistics bear that out. Okay...now that you intigued be enough to stay up post, this is what I will be doing in the morning>>>

did Trappenberg word it about the destoryed turtle nests?

He seems to be more worried about turtle nests than a missing American tourist. That is while they starve their other animals to death or let them run around unattended after having been hit by cars according to Greta. I think he just wants Natalee's family and friends off that island. He hates everything about them.

It will be a cold day in hell when I set foot in Aruba.

And also the K brothers were sitting in the same spot they were when Natalee disappeared.

Could you clarify that please..same spot in the bar or in the car in front? thanks

Nancy Grace for August 4, 2005, CNNHN

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF MISSING GIRL: The facts are that those three individuals and the father have knowledge, and they have got to come forward with it. I mean, they see what we have been put through, the entire world, as we`re watching, for the last two months. And we`ve just got -- we`ve gotten a huge commitment of involvement from the FBI, which is wonderful, Holland`s involvement. But the four individuals have to come on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Beth Holloway, down in Aruba, searching for her daughter. She says she vows to continue to fight.

Tonight, in Aruba, Natalee Holloway`s uncle, Paul Reynolds, is with us. And managing director and editor of "Diario" newspaper, Jossy Mansur. But first to WBMA reporter Anastasiya Bolton. Anastasiya, bring me up to date. This is another day of an intense questioning for Joran Van Der Sloot.

ANASTASIYA BOLTON, WBMA-TV: Absolutely, Nancy, another day, the third day of intense questioning, but interrogators are getting nowhere absolutely, they tell me. They still say he`s being uncooperative. Joran Van Der Sloot has been questioned all day. They can question him from early in the morning and late into the night. But the prosecutor and the judge in this case are saying maybe he needs his health checked, but they`re not elaborating on why exactly they`re saying that.

GRACE: His health checked? Oh, I don`t like...

BOLTON: Apparently.

GRACE: I don`t like the way this is going at all! Jossy Mansur, his health checked?

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": I don`t think so. The reports we have of him in prison is that he looks OK, he looks down, but that he looks healthy.

GRACE: Well, Jossy, didn`t you tell me the other night that during all this questioning, Joran Van Der Sloot, the judge`s son, will sit there with his hands over his ears?

MANSUR: Yes. It comes to a point where he doesn`t want to answer any more questions, his silence was sufficient, then he tell these people that he doesn`t want to even hear the questions. His puts his hands to his ears...

GRACE: Oh!

MANSUR: ... covers them like a kid.

GRACE: What, monkey hear no evil, monkey see no evil, monkey speak no evil. I`m sorry, Jossy, what were you saying? I decided to pretend I couldn`t hear. And the Aruban authorities are letting him get away with this, pretending he can`t hear? He actually sits there like that during questioning?

MANSUR: As I understand it, as a juvenile, he has the right to remain silent.

GRACE: Well, OK. You know, there`s a good question. Anastasiya Bolton, even adults in Aruba have the right to remain silent, I would assume. Isn`t he about to turn 18? Oh, there he goes! See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil!

BOLTON: Nancy, I want to point out that when he turns 18 on Saturday, his parents, especially his dad, I`m sure, who`s visiting him almost every day, will not be able to visit him as often. The parents will only be able to have visitations once a week, and that will start on Saturday.

GRACE: Well, you know -- psychoanalyst Bethany Marshall is with us. Bethany, the reality is this. He`s already been instructed by his father. The father and mother are visiting him frequently. According to Jossy Mansur with "Diario," he sits there with his hands over his ears, pretending he can`t hear. That`s not going to change. He is dug in. He`s not cracking. They`ve got to go to the Kalpoe brothers!

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: I think so, too, because when you take a look at the whole -- the whole course of this case, this kid, Joran Van Der Sloot, has total disregard for authority. He had disregard on the night that he met Natalee. If you look at all of his late-night carousing, staying up until 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, he does not have respect for rules.

So, yes, I think they have to bring in the Kalpoe brothers. They need to use better interrogation techniques and get them to turn against each other. And also, he`s getting so much support by the dad. That has to be removed.

GRACE: Well, you know, Anne Bremner, I feel confident that they are going to let this case go cold down there and they`re going to let this judge`s son walk. Come September the 4th, that`s the day, if they don`t have charges formally filed, he walks, Anne!

ANNE BREMNER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: He does, Nancy. You`re absolutely right. And nothing from nothing leaves nothing. There`s nothing in this case. And he`s given so many statements, 22, we`ve heard, you know, that it`s almost -- it`s almost reminiscent, though, Nancy, of, like, the old cases of the bare lightbulb swinging in the wind. I mean, how many times can you go to someone and say, Say it, say it, when they`re, like, you know, La, la, la, la, la? I mean, that`s what he`s doing.

So the case is over unless they immunize somebody and say, Will you turn on your co-defendant or your co-accused? But you know, you`re always right, and you`re especially right in this instance, Nancy.

GRACE: Paul Reynolds, how do you think the questioning is going right now? We`ve got the questioning of Joran Van Der Sloot still going on. We`ve got the search of the landfill still going on. What is your take on it?

PAUL REYNOLDS, UNCLE OF MISSING GIRL: Well, I`m glad we are interrogating Joran some more. I think that is absolutely necessary, and to continue doing it. I think, you know, people need to be questioned in addition to Joran. The Kalpoe brothers, certainly, we think have information, but we think there`s also other people that have information.

GRACE: Like who?

REYNOLDS: My sister -- well, just, you know, take, for example -- my sister, Beth, visited with some of the kids that were on the trip last weekend when she was home. She found out a lot of information about that night and particulars about what was happening, you know, possibly why things happened the way they did. And then there`s another girl that came forward to my sister this week, a young girl that was on vacation here last April, that kind of demonstrated a pattern of predatorship that Joran had establish there at Carlos and Charlie`s.

And you know, in the same manner that this information has come forward, even two months later, other information from people on the island can come forward. We know there are people out there that have this information, and we`re making a public appeal for them to come forward with that.

GRACE: You know what`s amazing to me, Anastasiya Bolton -- Anastasiya is with WBMA -- that people are actually complaining that Texas Equusearch -- everybody, if you didn`t already know, a special team of searchers has flown down on their own dime to Aruba to try to find Natalee. People there in Aruba were actually complaining, Anastasiya, that Texas Equusearch dislodged some sea turtle eggs!

BOLTON: Yes, a park ranger reported, and Associated Press is quoted as saying that the Texas Equusearch group, while searching a remote beach on July 29, did destroy an endangered turtles` nest. The Texas Equusearch group vehemently denies it. They say they never dug there. They say they just went around the area. They say they`ve done no damage whatsoever. So the parties, at this point, are at odds.

But by the way, Texas Equusearch is staying on the island through the end of the week, still searching the landfill. They still have one more location outside of the landfill to search. Still, they say, no help from the government that said, You know what? We`ll give you some equipment. No help whatsoever, they tell me today.

GRACE: Jossy Mansur, I cannot believe that the Aruban government is complaining about a sea turtle egg being dug up on the beach, when this team is there with no help from the Aruban government, trying to find clues about Natalee!

MANSUR: Well, I can`t speak for the government because I`m not in government. And I don`t believe the government did this. This is a park ranger that may work for some part of the government, but I haven`t heard...

GRACE: A park ranger...

MANSUR: ... any complaint...

GRACE: ... that works for the government actually came down on Texas Equusearch for an egg, a turtle egg! Yes, that`s what they`re having to deal with!

I`m going to ask Paul Reynolds. Have the Aruban government given Texas Equusearch any help, like they promised they would?

REYNOLDS: You know, we had problems, especially in the beginning. And you know, I talked to some people today about this incident about the turtle eggs. You know, the people at Equusearch are great people and very ecologically-minded. They certainly would never have intentionally endangered any turtle eggs. There`s absolutely no evidence that they did. You know, what -- the park ranger has come forward and said that something happened to them. You know, he didn`t see Equusearch do anything, but they`re saying that they think that Equusearch was the only people in there at that time.

GRACE: Well, I don`t want to get bogged down in a turtle egg right now. I want to find out from you, Jossy Mansur, how the search of the landfill is going?

MANSUR: It`s going very well. They`ve covered a lot of territory. They have a lot still to go. One important thing is that the witness that pointed out this pick-up dropping a body over there is participating in the search. The man was checked out very totally, and his story sticks like gum.

GRACE: Interesting. Bethany Marshall, why would a guy who is lying about seeing someone dumping a body there at the landfill be out there searching in this heat if he wasn`t convinced he saw something?

MARSHALL: Well, I think it`s important to think about the witnesses in this case and why they have all come forward later on because, as I said in another show, in third-world countries, sometimes witnesses are afraid to come forward. And in the case of Jossy Mansur, who did the wonderful detective work -- he found the witnesses, and he gave them some verbal assurance that the magazine would stand behind them. I think with those types of verbal guarantees and with national attention, some of these witnesses feel that they now can participate in the search with some type of immunity.

GRACE: And very quickly, Daniel Horowitz -- I`ve got to go to break - - but remember the Lori Hacking case and the landfill issue? That took two-and-a-half months to find any sign of Lori Hacking, but they did.

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I know. What concerns me, Nancy, is if this a dead end, it`s taking so much of the limited Aruban resources. We may be missing...

GRACE: Oh, please! They`re not doing anything.

HOROWITZ: Well, I know. This is about all they`re doing, and it could be just sifting through garbage for nothing. Let`s -- you know, it`s a waste of energy, possibly.

I don't think Greta had anyone on from TES after Trappenberg. So it went unchallanged.

" I'll play it back on my Tivo and post it when I get done."

Please read post 1422 and check out the yellow station wagon that Vn_survivor_67-68, mentioned.

Thanks. :)

Perhaps the woman the witness purportedly saw may have been Mrs. VDS's replacement for the evening.

Cherchez la femme.

Leni

agreed

Beth is also saying Your On a little differently then she has been.

Yes, this was the first night I heard her say Yoran instead of Urine.

I just remembered something else she said the NJ girl told her. Said Joran went over to the bar and told the bartender that he needed four 151's. Beth didn't know what 151's were (neither did I, looked it up...it's 75.5 proof rum)

Nite, Truthluva~!!

Same spot in the bar

good!

Lol.

I think this landfill witness is extremely credible, most especially when he said the body was PURPLE. Who, just wanting some attention in this case, would think of that detail?

There was definitely something left out of this conversation too. This happened at the end of April. The girl is back on the Island right now (was my impression) and hasn't been there the whole time. I'd love to know if she came back to Aruba to talk to Beth, or if it's another vacation, or what?

Young people tend to trust young people and that setting provides a false sense of security: small, romantic island, great fun and the age of maturity is mere 18 years old. Natalee is missing because one or more of the last three boys seen with her KNOW what happened.

Hon, if you are concerned over the possiblity that poor Joran is in jail and is innocent,,,,you are no realist.

151 "proof" is 75 1/2 % alcohol

most spirits are in the 80-90 proof range