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Let's Have No More Monkey Trials - To teach faith as science is to undermine both
Time Magazine ^ | Monday, Aug. 01, 2005 | CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER

Posted on 08/01/2005 10:58:13 AM PDT by wallcrawlr

The half-century campaign to eradicate any vestige of religion from public life has run its course. The backlash from a nation fed up with the A.C.L.U. kicking crèches out of municipal Christmas displays has created a new balance. State-supported universities may subsidize the activities of student religious groups. Monuments inscribed with the Ten Commandments are permitted on government grounds. The Federal Government is engaged in a major antipoverty initiative that gives money to churches. Religion is back out of the closet.

But nothing could do more to undermine this most salutary restoration than the new and gratuitous attempts to invade science, and most particularly evolution, with religion. Have we learned nothing? In Kansas, conservative school-board members are attempting to rewrite statewide standards for teaching evolution to make sure that creationism's modern stepchild, intelligent design, infiltrates the curriculum. Similar anti-Darwinian mandates are already in place in Ohio and are being fought over in 20 states. And then, as if to second the evangelical push for this tarted-up version of creationism, out of the blue appears a declaration from Christoph Cardinal Schönborn of Vienna, a man very close to the Pope, asserting that the supposed acceptance of evolution by John Paul II is mistaken. In fact, he says, the Roman Catholic Church rejects "neo-Darwinism" with the declaration that an "unguided evolutionary process--one that falls outside the bounds of divine providence--simply cannot exist."

Cannot? On what scientific evidence? Evolution is one of the most powerful and elegant theories in all of human science and the bedrock of all modern biology. Schönborn's proclamation that it cannot exist unguided--that it is driven by an intelligent designer pushing and pulling and planning and shaping the process along the way--is a perfectly legitimate statement of faith. If he and the Evangelicals just stopped there and asked that intelligent design be included in a religion curriculum, I would support them. The scandal is to teach this as science--to pretend, as does Schönborn, that his statement of faith is a defense of science. "The Catholic Church," he says, "will again defend human reason" against "scientific theories that try to explain away the appearance of design as the result of 'chance and necessity,'" which "are not scientific at all." Well, if you believe that science is reason and that reason begins with recognizing the existence of an immanent providence, then this is science. But, of course, it is not. This is faith disguised as science. Science begins not with first principles but with observation and experimentation.

In this slippery slide from "reason" to science, Schönborn is a direct descendant of the early 17th century Dutch clergyman and astronomer David Fabricius, who could not accept Johannes Kepler's discovery of elliptical planetary orbits. Why? Because the circle is so pure and perfect that reason must reject anything less. "With your ellipse," Fabricius wrote Kepler, "you abolish the circularity and uniformity of the motions, which appears to me increasingly absurd the more profoundly I think about it." No matter that, using Tycho Brahe's most exhaustive astronomical observations in history, Kepler had empirically demonstrated that the planets orbit elliptically.

This conflict between faith and science had mercifully abated over the past four centuries as each grew to permit the other its own independent sphere. What we are witnessing now is a frontier violation by the forces of religion. This new attack claims that because there are gaps in evolution, they therefore must be filled by a divine intelligent designer.

How many times do we have to rerun the Scopes "monkey trial"? There are gaps in science everywhere. Are we to fill them all with divinity? There were gaps in Newton's universe. They were ultimately filled by Einstein's revisions. There are gaps in Einstein's universe, great chasms between it and quantum theory. Perhaps they are filled by God. Perhaps not. But it is certainly not science to merely declare it so.

To teach faith as science is to undermine the very idea of science, which is the acquisition of new knowledge through hypothesis, experimentation and evidence. To teach it as science is to encourage the supercilious caricature of America as a nation in the thrall of religious authority. To teach it as science is to discredit the welcome recent advances in permitting the public expression of religion. Faith can and should be proclaimed from every mountaintop and city square. But it has no place in science class. To impose it on the teaching of evolution is not just to invite ridicule but to earn it.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: acanthostega; charleskrauthammer; creation; crevolist; faith; ichthyostega; krauthammer; science; scienceeducation; scopes; smallpenismen
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To: Zeroisanumber

Post #46 is a defense of TOE, not an explanation of the foundations of modern biology.


121 posted on 08/01/2005 12:39:55 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Alouette
Mathematicians never resort to "literary devices" when proving a theorem, neither should biologists. QED.

Scientists don't either when they are writing formally.

122 posted on 08/01/2005 12:40:32 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: balrog666

:-)


123 posted on 08/01/2005 12:40:54 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: trebb; Physicist
Physcist tried to explain it one day, and I barely comprehended it, but I think the matter of the universe is tied to the potential energy of the universe (E=mc2 and all) and is a natural consequence of the universe's expansion.

'Course, I probably misunderstood it.

124 posted on 08/01/2005 12:41:15 PM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
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To: kharaku
"Yes evolutionists insist you have to 'understand' their theory. It wasn't spontaenous because it took a very very very long time and lots of really really wacky random situations. One day ape. One day latter cave man. There's not much more to understand than that evolutionists have observed similarities in man and similarities in ape and ASSUMED they must have once been the same thing."

Actually the ties between other apes and ourselves is not limited to simple morphological similarities as you are asserting. I agree that it is much easier to attack a straw man version of a concept and can understand why you insist on doing so, however it does show your inability to contemplate concepts beyond your perception of reality.

If you were to observe the actions of Chimps in similar combative circumstances to what you currently find yourself in, you would recognize the same emotional reaction and consequent actions portrayed by the Chimps in your own actions.

125 posted on 08/01/2005 12:41:30 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: JeffAtlanta
Thanks for not jumping on me with both feet - I make no bones about my beliefs and I don't claim to be a learned theologian or a scientist. I will fess up to sometimes trying to raise passions in those I debate with, but I believe that if there is no passion, there is no belief worth preserving. Getting folks to defend theo=ir beliefs serves double duty by making them think about it and by getting their best arguments on the table for others to see and digest.

I really am interested in how Big Bang proponents explain the existence of the original matter though and whether they consider a Time within Eternity concept as possible.

Have a good day...

126 posted on 08/01/2005 12:42:04 PM PDT by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: RegulatorCountry
My goodness, the vacuous denounces vacuousity... something of the eternal there, I just can't put my finger on it right now.

Do you have any facts to bring to the discussion, or do you believe that you're somehow proving your case by insulting everyone who disagrees with you and waving away any evidence that they present without even the slightest examination?
127 posted on 08/01/2005 12:42:59 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: BenLurkin
Close, but what the author narrowly missed is the fact that the creatures were created with that make-up in the cells (no need to contract a virus 'fossil' when one is placed there from the start).

And Mark Fuhrman planted the bloody glove. The question in both cases is "why?"

128 posted on 08/01/2005 12:43:13 PM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
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To: BenLurkin; Ichneumon

First of all, Ich's post, believe it or not, IS a "readers' digest" version of the evidence for evolution. However, let me at least attempt to make a summary of just one of his lines of evidence, namely the significance of the retroviral insertions in higher primates.

In the genome of every organism are sections of DNA that are derived from viruses, rather than a normal part of the genome. These viral insertions are essentially random as to the location in the genome at which they occur. With this in mind, and remembering that the genome of a multicellular organism usually consists of billions or trillions of base pairs, we can reasonably conclude that if two organisms have the identical insertion located at the identical location in their genomes that it is astronomically unlikely that this is the result of two independent insertions, but is more likely the result of one insertion event that occurred in the gametes of an ancestral organism that was subsequently inhereted by the two organisms. In short, a shared insertion located at a single location in the genomes of two organisms is strong evidence that the two organisms have a common ancestor.

The next question is then, are there such insertions that are found in different species of organisms. The answer is a resounding yes. Furthermore, relationship patterns can be inferred by studying the pattern of such insertions. For example, there are insertions that are shared by humans, gorillas and chimpanzees. There are also other insertions that are shared by humans and chimpanzees, but are not seen in gorillas. From this, it can be inferred that gorillas, humans and chimps all share a common ancestor. It can also be inferred that humans and chimps share an ancestor that's not shared by gorillas; that is, the common ancestor of all three primates diverged into a lineage that produced the common ancestor of chimps and humans and another lineage that led to modern gorillas.

Now, for the piece de resistance: if we have the story correct, namely that gorillas diverged away from the chimp/human/gorilla ancestor earlier than the human and chimp lineages diverged, we would predict that any insertions that are found in gorillas and chimps must also be found in humans. Similarly any insertions found in gorillas and humans must also be found in chimps. This is a direct result of the proposed relationship. It is hypothesized that a single organism, namely the chimp/human ancestor split off from the gorilla ancestor. Therefore, chimps alone could not inherit any insertion found in gorillas, since such an insertion must have occurred before the split of the gorilla and the chimp/human lineages. Humans must have inherited the same insertion.

Does this prediction hold true when the genomes of chimps, humans, and gorillas are studied. So far, yes it does. We have yet to find any insertions in gorillas and chimps, but not humans, for example. Note, that finding an insertion in gorillas that doesn't occur in humans wouldn't falsify this hypothesis, however, since such an insertion could have occurred in the gorilla lineage after it diverged from the chimp/human lineage. It must be an insertion that occurs in chimps AND gorillas, but not humans to falsify the hypothesis. While we can never be entirely sure that such falsification will never occur, the fact that the predicted pattern of insertions has been found is strong evidence for the hypothesized ancestral relationships of humans, apes and chimps.

This is just one such pattern that has been derived from such considerations. Many other such patterns of relationships have also been studied. Further, in almost all cases, the pattern of relationships that has been found from studying viral insertions matches the pattern of relationships derived from independent methods, such as morphological studies, all of which lends strong support to evolution.

DISCLAIMER: I am not an evolutionary biologist, nor any other kind of expert on evolutionary theory, just a reasonably well-educated practicing scientist. I am sure that Ich can correct any mistakes I might have made in the above post.


129 posted on 08/01/2005 12:43:13 PM PDT by stremba
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To: wallcrawlr
Let's Have No More Monkey Trials

"Now, wait just a minute..."

130 posted on 08/01/2005 12:43:46 PM PDT by Stultis
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To: wallcrawlr

Faith cannot be separated from science. Faith is based on acceptance of evidence. All science is built on faith in the observations of others. I have faith that light has some properties of waves, because I can observe the interference pattern when it passes through parallel slits. I have faith that astronomers correctly understand the motion of celestial objects, because they can accurately predict eclipses, cometary appearances, etc. I have faith that combustion of hydrocarbons consumes O2 and produces CO2 & H2O, even though I can't physically observe the atoms switching places. I have faith that Alaska exists, even though I've never been there.


131 posted on 08/01/2005 12:46:07 PM PDT by Sloth (History's greatest monsters: Hitler, Stalin, Mao & Durbin)
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To: Tribune7

Post #46 is a small chuck of the evidence for TOE, not a defense nor an explanation.


132 posted on 08/01/2005 12:46:36 PM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
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To: Stultis

Ginsburg??


133 posted on 08/01/2005 12:46:37 PM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: Alouette
"Eventually, you will come to a phrase like "The Plan of Evolution," or "Nature's Grand Design" or "Nature's Creation" or "Evolution's Clever Strategy" or even "THE MIRACLE OF EVOLUTION!!!!"

"Now, if Evolution (or "Nature", the terms are used interchangeably) is nothing but random accidents, how can random accident have a "Plan" or a "Grand Design" or a "Clever Strategy"? That would imply (gasp!) a HIGHER INTELLIGENCE.

Argument by literary short cut? Now that's a new one to me.

Better circle the wagons people, there's a new weapon on the loose.

134 posted on 08/01/2005 12:46:53 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: Sloth
I have faith that Alaska exists, even though I've never been there.

I have and its heavenly.

135 posted on 08/01/2005 12:48:14 PM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: Blzbba
"Whoa. Your post 34 beat me by milliseconds!"

Narby is ahead by one.

136 posted on 08/01/2005 12:48:27 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: Junior

Chuck = Chunk.


137 posted on 08/01/2005 12:49:05 PM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
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To: kharaku
Yes evolutionists insist you have to 'understand' their theory.

How arrogant of them, suggesting that you have to "understand" something in order to adequately comment on it, as if uninformed strawman attacks weren't valid arguments against the theory of evolution.
138 posted on 08/01/2005 12:50:43 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: bethelgrad
But what Krauthammer misses is the fact that many Christians who strive to integrate faith and learning cannot simply agree with the notion that there is any sphere of learning that is out of bounds for religious thinking. Most genuine believers do not compartmentalize (or shouldn't), instead they view all the disciplines, science included, through the lens of faith.
Interesting. I didn't realize that Christians were so Islamic in their outlook regarding religion in every facet of life. How do you integrate the "Render unto Caesar..." part?
139 posted on 08/01/2005 12:51:59 PM PDT by WildHorseCrash
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To: Sloth
Faith cannot be separated from science. Faith is based on acceptance of evidence. All science is built on faith in the observations of others.

That is a different type of faith than the one discussed in the article. Faith in a supreme being is a very different usage of the word than having faith that the toilet will flush when I press the handle.

Science relies on the usage of the word "faith" as laid out in definition #1 below. Creationists rely on the "faith" described in definition #2, #3, #4 or #5.

faith   Audio pronunciation of "faith" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (fth)
n.

  1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
  2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
  3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
  4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
  5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.

140 posted on 08/01/2005 12:53:11 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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