Posted on 07/28/2005 8:24:10 AM PDT by petro45acp
U.S. Army soldiers have used "excessive" and "unauthorized deadly force" in Iraq to defend supply convoys because they did not have the proper weapons, according to a commander's secret internal memorandum. The memo says soldiers need precision-guided pistols, in addition to heavy-fire machine guns, to ensure that innocent people are not killed. The memo was written by Brig. Gen. Joseph J. Chaves, who commands an Army National Guard brigade that performs the perilous job of guarding convoys that move in and out of Camp Anaconda, a sprawling logistics base near Balad, north of Baghdad... ...In the March 15 memo, Gen. Chaves tells top commanders in Baghdad that he does not have the right mix of weapons to fire from the turrets of armored Humvees and other vehicles that guard supply trucks. "Previously, reports indicated that excessive use of force, to include unauthorized deadly force, was employed by some convoy escorts," Gen. Chaves writes to the commander of all multinational forces in Iraq in a memo stamped "secret." A copy of the memo was obtained by The Washington Times.... ...The memo does not provide details of excessive-force incidents... ...Gen. Chaves blames the deaths on escorts being forced to use M-2 machine guns and MK-19 grenade launchers, which apparently killed unintended targets. He said soldiers, when attacked, have no time to reach down inside their armored vehicles to retrieve more accurate weapons. "The speed of our convoys and oncoming threats allow no time for soldiers to alternately reach down to grab an M-16 or M-4 [rifles] in order to ensure that proportionate force is utilized to ensure innocent civilians are not engaged," he said. Gen. Chaves, who commands the Hawaii Army National Guard 29th Separate Infantry Brigade, said the answer was to equip soldiers with laser-guided 9 mm Beretta pistols.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
Shakes head ruefully!
If all you got's a hammer, every problem is a nail.
Yeah, I'm a civillian gun nut and the terminology really threw me there. I thought that precision guided pistol was some new secret weapon....
I'm sure getting tired of the Military Leaders that are more concerned about not causing casualties than they are about getting the job done.
Is it regrettable that innocents get killed?
Yes
Is it avoidable?
Yes
But it's not the fault of the soldiers, it's the fault of those who would try to disrupt the convoys by violent means.
This is just weird. Why would anyone use a pistol to stop a car bomb. I would think a tank gun would be appropriate.
Shrug, article makes no sense.
.......Ill-equipped soldiers use excess force......buy Islamic Swords?
You notice that while our press seems to be all upset when one of "Ours" uses deadly force, they seem to take an almost obscene delight in announcing when one of "Ours" is killed through the deadly force of others.
All I can say, is: If threatened, Kill them all and let Allah sort them out.
this story really makes me wonder if the General has ever fired a weapon in the past 20 or so years........
Need more ACORN's (radio frequency scanners that either blow the IED in place before you get there or jam the frequency for the cel phone or garage door opener in question).
Good ol' Ma Deuce. Neutralizing threats for sixty-five years.
}:-)4
The unfortunate result will be that our soldiers will be equipped with less pwoerful weapons. That will result in greater casualties.
Laser guided? I think they mean laser-targetting.
If civilians learn that a heap of destruction will come their way, they do two things, make themselves scarce, or point out exactly where the bad guys are, directing the fire power in the proper direction...or they die and their families blame us for their willful inaction.
Huh?
precision-guided pistols?
I'd love to see the data on how a troop can suppress the enemy with a 9mm Baretta from a moving vehicle.
I'll take the Mk19 any day.
Learn to shoot the ones you have.
Where to start on this with so many target of opportunity??
Laser effectiveness in the bright sunlight has got to be considerably reduced, thus allowing a potential threat to be well within the troops' danger zone.
As to the pistol as a "symbol of authority", those who choose to assault a convoy armed with heavy machine guns and grenade launchers are not going to be instantly impressed or deterred when the convoy draws down with M9 pistols. Anybody that thinks this line of reasoning is at all valid is too stupid to swallow their own spit.
I like the Sean Connery point of view from the The Untouchables, paraphrased to the situation: Just like an Iraqi/Syrian/Iranian to bring a knife to a gunfight. Overwhelming force is key to troop survival, IMO.
Oh, and we need some laser guided bullets for our pistols.
We've already taken most Mk19s out of service due to collateral damage concerns, now we want to use Crimson Trace equipped M9s for convoy protection??
If you don't want to get shot, stay out of the way.
pilloy=pillowy
What the hell is a laser-guided 9mm Beretta pistols. First of all a pistol? A pistol has a cylinder, not a magazine. Don't sound right. Second, what is a laser-guided hand held gun. BS. This jacka@@ probably meant a laser to guide the shooter by targeting the terrorist. By the time this poor solider got his shot away, I feel sorry for the result. This jacka@@ probably never saw battle. Machine gun them down, feel sorry later, but alive. That's the kind of war I was in.
Poor selection of words. It should have said "Beretta pistol with a laser aiming device". However, on a very bright day, you might not see the laser.
Sounds like an excuse to trash our soldiers.
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