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Frustrated Muslims fight "ignorance"
The Denver Post ^ | July 24, 2005 | Diane Carmen

Posted on 07/24/2005 4:30:19 PM PDT by CO Gal

When U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., suggested that bombing Mecca might be an appropriate response to the terrorist threat, he sent shock waves around the world.

And he thrilled many of his supporters.

I heard from dozens of nuke-happy Tancredo fans, though not all of them had the courage to sign their names.

From Don MacEwan: "Islam was and is the religion of terror. ... Putting forth a warning to Islam that mutually assured destruction means their holy city of Medina is nuked if they do not curb their terrorist urges seems to be a prudent step."

From Cynthia J. Starks: "The problem is with the religion of Islam. ... These people are EVIL!!"

From John M. Conway: "I think Mr. Tancredo is right. ... These people are barbarians and it's bed-wetting cowards such as yourself who somehow think they can be reasoned with."

From Margaret Wilmott: "Tancredo hit a nerve. Good for him. I'd prefer a first strike. Why wait?"

The State Department, meanwhile, was in full-on damage control. "These remarks are offensive and unacceptable and do not reflect U.S. policy," it said in a statement. "We unequivocally reject the idea of targeting Mecca or any other civilian or religious site by anyone. The U.S. respects and honors all the great religions of the world, including Islam."

News organizations from Australia to Russia responded with their own criticisms of Tancredo's remarks.

"The lack of understanding for Islam in the United States is disturbing," said Spiegel Online of Germany. "One gets the impression that, were the Constitution not clear about the separation between church and state, the country might rapidly turn into a Christian theocracy. And Muslims would be the first to go. ... Is it any wonder that many Muslims are skeptical of the United States?"

As the controversy roiled, Muslims in Colorado became increasingly frustrated and frightened.

Rafaat Ludin, president of the Colorado Muslim Society, said he has received hate-filled, threatening calls and e-mails at the Muslim Society and on his private phone and private e-mail account in the wake of Tancredo's remarks.

On Tuesday, a car raced through the grounds of the Colorado Muslim Society, endangering people who were there to study and pray. "The schoolchildren were very frightened," he said.

Muslims here and around the world have been vocal and forthright in their condemnation of terrorists for years, Ludin said, but the message seldom is heard. "We had a huge demonstration in Washington, D.C., against terrorism a year and a half ago and even that didn't get any media coverage," he said.

That's why the Muslim Society has hung five banners outside the mosque along Parker Road to try to communicate directly with people who don't understand Islam. They say: "Islam = peacemaking," "Muslims condemn terrorism," "Islam values life," and other messages.

"The position of the Koran is very clear about this," Ludin explained. "The taking of life of innocent people is not only condemned, it is a major sin. For a Muslim person who does this, there is no chance of going to heaven."

All religions have extremists who ration alize violent behavior through some distorted interpretation of their faith, he said. "Eric Rudolph is one of those radicals who went out and started bombing places because he thought he had a religious duty to do that. You don't go out and bomb the Vatican to stop that."

He said the misunderstanding of Islam among Americans - especially people in positions of power - is appalling.

"That someone in Congress on the International Relations Committee is able to make such statements ... and have no shame whatsoever, no understanding whatsoever of the emotions of the more than 7 million Muslims in the U.S., that's what shocks us, that's what angers us and scares us," he said.

"It's such a high level of ignorance of our beliefs," he said. "It's such a message of hate


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Colorado; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: islam; muslim; nukemecca; tancredo; votetancredo2008; whiningwahabbists
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To: CO Gal

>>>"When U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., suggested that bombing Mecca might be an appropriate response to the terrorist threat, he sent shock waves around the world"<<<

Just can't read that often enough!


61 posted on 07/24/2005 5:32:10 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: TexasTransplant
>>>"When U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., suggested that bombing Mecca might be an appropriate response to the terrorist threat, he sent shock waves around the world"<<<

Just can't read that often enough!

And the moron bimbo with the slack-jawed underbite can only sit there wide-eyed and mumble..."what's wrong with that statement"?

62 posted on 07/24/2005 5:37:41 PM PDT by Publius6961 (Liberal level playing field: If the Islamics win we are their slaves..if we win they are our equals.)
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"It's such a high level of ignorance of our beliefs," he said. "It's such a message of hate."

Bub...when your own "prophet" declares that non-muslims be assimilated or die; when every single word in your holy book is taken as a command from on high; when anyone who looks cross-eyed at your holy book is threatened with death and called "Satan"; when millions of islamists dance with joy and sing in orgasmic rapture at the deaths of non-muslims....that's when your "religion" becomes inconsequential to a large percentage of Americans.

Clean up your trash contingent as Christians and Jews try to clean up theirs......then, we'll have an inclination to talk with you.

63 posted on 07/24/2005 5:39:42 PM PDT by Thumper1960 ("It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed."-V.I.Lenin)
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Comment #64 Removed by Moderator

To: freedom44

Muslims can never be true Americans. Their only loyalty is to Islam. Loyalty to this country is a distant second.


65 posted on 07/24/2005 5:45:34 PM PDT by Pete98 (After his defeat by the Son of God, Satan changed his name to Allah and started over.)
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To: ClearBlueSky

Why stay? They are waiting for orders.


66 posted on 07/24/2005 5:45:56 PM PDT by marty60
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To: CO Gal
He said the misunderstanding of Islam among Americans - especially people in positions of power - is appalling.

When I see average joe muslims speak out en masse against terrorism by their extremist brethern, I may change my mind ...

... but until then, should the West see a single nuke used against it by any muslim whatsoever, nuking Mecca and Medina sounds fine. Disassemble the Hajj and use the stone to build a brothel in Tijuana that also sells pork bar-b-que. To where will muslims pray 5 times a day? A Tijuana whorehouse?

I'm beginning to believe there are no "moderate" muslims.

67 posted on 07/24/2005 5:53:12 PM PDT by Smedley
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To: CO Gal

Hugh Hewitt
http://63.247.134.170/~gobrowns/archives/2005/07/24-week/index.php#a000013

Tancredo's Crusade and its Costs
July 24, 2005 08:36 AM EST
Congressman Tom Tancredo takes to the pages of the Denver Post today in an effort to resurrect his reputation. He fails because he doubles down on his absurd insistence that "bombing Mecca" ought to be "on the table." No serious politician in the country has come to Tancredo's defense, and indeed I have not seen any credible authority on war or religion endorse this foolishness. No serious Christian theologian can endorse what is obviously an immoral threat against another faith. Tancredo is drawing encouragment from the small percentage of Americans who have fallen into the erroneous belief that all of Islam is arrayed against the West.

Point number one. Tancredo's ego is really astonishing, attributing the widespread comment on and embarassment at his remarks to the veiw that they:

served to start a national dialogue about what options we have to deter al-Qaeda and other would-be Islamic terrorists.
Twice in the column Tancredo makes absurd leaps of logic in an effort to obscure the central issues of the morality or utility of a threat on Muslim holy sites. Here's the first:

[I]n this battle against fundamentalist Islam, I am hardly preoccupied with political correctness, or who may or may not be offended. Indeed, al-Qaeda cares little if the Western world is "offended" by televised images of hostages beheaded in Iraq, subway bombings in London, train attacks in Madrid, or Americans jumping to their death from the Twin Towers as they collapsed.
In fact Tancredo is preoccupied with attention-getting statements that play to the frustrated edge of the conservative camp that sees any denunciation of "political correctness" as an endorsement of their desire for blunt talk against media elites.

But not threatening Islamic countries and populations with the destruction of the places they devoutly esteem is not p.c.-generated double-talk. It is sensible respect for a vast group of Muslims abroad and a few million Muslims who are our fellow citizens from whom we must ask cooperation and to whom we must pledge a non-bigoted appreciation for their religious choices.

The jump Tancredo makes from Americans disgusted with his foolishness to al Qaeda's reactions to American outrage is incoherent. Really, incoherent.

The next incoherence follows quickly:

People have accused me of creating more terrorism by making these statements. Indeed, we often hear that Western governments bring these attacks on themselves.
Tancredo's foolishness will no doubt be used, as was Dick Durbin's outrageous comparison of the American military to Nazis and Khmer Rouge, by propagandists for Islamist extremists. But Tancredo's attemp to hide himself under the wings of John Howard and other eloquent spokesmen who reject the dangeorus idea that the West is generating the attacks on itself overlooks Howard's --and Blair's and Bush's-- refusal to be drawn into Islam bashing or incediary rhetoric like Tancredo's. On Thursday, Howard bluntly stated, again:

"[T]his is about the perverted use of the principles of a great world religion, that at its root preaches peace and cooperation, and I think we lose sight of the challenge we have if we allow ourselves to see these attacks in the context of particular circumstances rather than the abuse through a perverted ideology of people and their murder."
Serious leaders in the West refuse to indulge the hatred for a different religion that is implicit in Tancredo's frothings. No doubt Tancredo and his supporters deem Howard, Blair, and Bush "soft" on terrorism.

Tancredo then quotes a couple of extremist Islamists and/or apologists for such extremist Islamists before finishing with this flourish --a libel on every Muslim who has indeed condemned terror and especially on the between 5,000 and 10,000 Muslims serving in the American military:

Fundamentalist Muslims have advocated the destruction of the West since long before the attacks of Sept. 11, long before the Madrid, London and Bali attacks, long before the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, long before the attack on the USS Cole and the 1993 WTC bombing.
In many respects, the decision of "moderate" Muslims to acquiesce to these actions and even provide tacit justification for them is just as damaging to global safety and security as the attacks themselves.

Until "mainstream" Islam can bring itself to stop rationalizing terrorist attacks and start repudiating and purging people like Ali and Hajjar from its ranks who do, this war will continue. As long as this war goes on, being "offended" should be the least of anyone's worries.


This insult to every Muslim who has courageously stood up to Islamist terror should not be allowed to pass uncondemned by supporters of the GWOT. There needs to be more and more and louder and louder condemnation of Islamist terror from within Islam. There needs to be more and more cooperation from among Muslims in the identification of Islamist threats at home and abroad. But Tancredo's absurd hypotheticals injure that prospect. The Congressman needs to review the record, finding the good --not just the evil-- and praising it. He might want to start with the fact the Muslim community in upstate New York helped DOJ uncover and halt the operation of a cell there.

If you were a Muslim, would Tancredo's outrageous speculations make you more or less likely to assist in the GWOT? Obviously the latter. After braving Islamist threats to help the authorities break a cell, you open the paper and find that your holy places will be "on the table" if terror takes another huge toll in the United States.

"Being 'offended'" is not my worry.

Having progress in the GWOT compromised handicapped by a publicity-seeking Congressman is my worry. Handing propaganda to Islamists is my worry. Encouraging the wrong-headed belief that the world cannot be made safe until Islam is destropyed is my worry.

Here are some basic facts for Tancredo fans to ponder:

"Islam is the second-largest religion in the world, counting more than 1.3 billion believers. Americans have the misconception that all Muslims are Arabs and that all Arabs are Muslims. In fact, less than 20 percent of the Muslims in the world are Arab, and all Arab countries have populations that believe in other religions. The nation with the world's largest Islamic population is Indonesia -- 88 percent of its 280 million people are Muslims.
In the United States, Islam is the fastest growing religion, a trend fueled mostly by immigration. There are 5 million to 7 million Muslims in the United States. They make up between 10,000 and 20,000 members of the American military.

Army Chaplain (Capt.) Abdul-Rasheed Muhammad is a Muslim Imam stationed at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington. In his chaplaincy, he ministers to all faiths."


The United State is locked in a deadly war with Islamists who would indeed use nukes against American cities if they could, or any other WMD for that matter. There are some states that support these Islamists, including the governments of Iran and Syria, and some of the elites in Saudi Arabia.

But there are also governments like those in Eygpt, Jordan, and Pakistan that are providing us enormously valuable assistance in the war, governements which come under huge pressure from their fundamentalist Muslim populations to stop assisting the "crusaders."

Tancredo made all of their jobs more difficult, and ours as well, by sounding exactly like a Christian jihadist would sound, even though it is clearly contrary to Christian teachings to threaten retaliation against non-combatants even in a just war.

I have repeatedly invited Congressman Tancredo on my show over the past week. He has declined every opportunity, and Tancredo fans have repeatedly asked me to "drop it." Well, Tancredo doubled down today, and his attempt to camouflage his inanity in a variety of ways does nothing but highlight again and again why he doesn't deserve invitations to GOP events or leadership positions in Washington.

"Supporting" Congressman Tancredo on this issue identifies you as an American interested in comforting noise rather than progress in the GWOT.

The first rule of any conflict is to unite your allies and divide your enemies. Congressman Tancredo's hypothetical has had exactly the opposite impact. It will be crucial that those allies understand what an outlier he is.

I am sure I will hear --again-- from all the "realists" who want to quote the Koran to me and instruct me on how blind I am to the threat of Islam. Look, feel free to write me, but try and find at least one quote from a serious conservative on the American or world stage to back you up. Dick Cheney's pretty solid, right? So is Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, right? O.K., then, send me some citations to their Tancredo-like remarks. There's a reason they are leading and Tancredo is simply milking rage and anger for personal benefit. They are interested in the national security and victory in the GWOT. Congressman Tancredo is interested in, well, Congressman Tancredo.


68 posted on 07/24/2005 5:55:06 PM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: freedom44
There are lots of good American Muslims who love this country and everything we stand for.

What if you replaced "Muslims" in that statement with "Stalinists?" The problem isn't the Muslims themselves--it's the socio-political system their faith requires. Islam is a spiritual, social, and political disease. There is no such thing as civil rights within any Muslim dominated country. Are American Muslims proud of Saudi Arabia's failure to allow freedom of worship, the Sudan's sanctioning of Muslim rape squads, the worldwide problem of uniformly Muslim terror bombers? Islam--like Fascism and Communisim--has a lot to apologize for. The proper social response for Muslims is to show a little shame, and consider renouncing a religion that has been the cause misery world wide.
69 posted on 07/24/2005 5:56:02 PM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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Comment #70 Removed by Moderator

To: Valin

Count on Hugh to miss the point. Mutually assured destruction worked. If every suitcase bomber knew that the destruction of an American City meant the destruction of Mecca, we might see something like civilization break out in the Arab world.


71 posted on 07/24/2005 6:00:33 PM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: CO Gal

Just curious, Would this Samir have to leave?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1391805/posts


72 posted on 07/24/2005 6:00:44 PM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: skimbell

Yes, that's a fairly stark reminder, lest we forget 2001...


73 posted on 07/24/2005 6:01:28 PM PDT by ZOTnot ('We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good'--Hillary, 6/28/2004.)
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To: CO Gal

There's a difference between not understanding muslims and not liking them. We understand them -- just as we understand the communists -- but we don't like them. There is no logical reason why we should like someone who wants to kill us.


74 posted on 07/24/2005 6:02:20 PM PDT by henderson field
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To: CO Gal
"The lack of understanding for Islam in the United States is disturbing,"

How did one eloquent freeper put it? "Everything I ever needed to know about Islam I learned on 911!"

That's my desktop wallpaper and it always will be.

I only need to know one thing about Islam. My children are infidels. My grandchildren are infidels. My woman is an infidel. I'm an infidel.

Islam just hasn't gotten around to slaughering us, in the most painful ways they can envision, yet.

75 posted on 07/24/2005 6:04:42 PM PDT by America's Resolve (Liberal Democrats are liars, cheats and thieves with no morals, scruples, ethics or honor!)
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To: Publius6961

Whatever happened to THINKING before speaking?


76 posted on 07/24/2005 6:05:03 PM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: farmer18th

Count on you to missed the REAL point. World class stupid statement like Tancredo made, do nothing but provied aid and comfort to our enemies..


78 posted on 07/24/2005 6:08:52 PM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: CO Gal

islam IS hate.


79 posted on 07/24/2005 6:11:13 PM PDT by porkchops 4 mahound (islam is the problem)
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To: CO Gal
"The position of the Koran is very clear about this," Ludin explained. "The taking of life of innocent people is not only condemned, it is a major sin. For a Muslim person who does this, there is no chance of going to heaven."

Sounds like there are a lot of ignorant Muslims out there. Shouldn't they be doing a better job of teaching Muslims that they're not going to get 72 raisins by blowing up infidels, instead of whining to the media?

80 posted on 07/24/2005 6:21:21 PM PDT by Alouette (Jews don't expel Jews -- Americans don't appease terrorists.)
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