Posted on 07/08/2005 1:15:53 PM PDT by RonF
CHICAGO -- Two well-known Chicago religious leaders today hailed an injunction by U.S. District Court Judge Blanche Manning that bars the Pentagon from spending millions of dollars to support future Boy Scout Jamborees (the only youth organization event so funded by the Pentagon).
(Excerpt) Read more at aclu.org ...
CHICAGO -- Two well-known Chicago religious leaders today hailed an injunction by U.S. District Court Judge Blanche Manning that bars the Pentagon from spending millions of dollars to support future Boy Scout Jamborees (the only youth organization event so funded by the Pentagon).
Interesting to see how quickly we go from "prominent Chicago Religous Leaders" to "two prominent Chicago religous leaders".
As far as the uniqueness of this - actually, DoD personnel often get involved in supporting youth organization and other NFP organization activities. It engenders goodwill in the community, gets them visible among the same, and gives the DoD personnel involved training. When I go to a local historical re-enactment, the DoD is there (in the guise of the Guard) providing potable water, etc. to the participants. The amount of expenditure in this case is commensurate with the size of the event.
The judge’s decision is the most recent action in a case brought by the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois on behalf of religious and community leaders from Chicago who were alarmed at the favored treatment afforded by several governmental entities to the Boy Scouts of America, despite the BSA’s religious requirements for participation. The injunction does not cover the Jamboree already scheduled for this summer.
Two lead plaintiffs in the case filed in 1999, Reverend Eugene Winkler and Rabbi Gary Gerson, stated today that the judge’s order helps maintain the critical constitutional principle of government neutrality towards religion. "Government has an obligation to be neutral in religious activities," said Rev. Winkler, a former pastor at the First United Methodist Church in Chicago. "Government must be neutral because we are a nation of many religious views -- as well as those who do not practice a religion. The expenditure of $8 million by the Pentagon for an organization that requires young people to affirm a belief in God -- and the simultaneous exclusion of secular organizations from this benefit -- undermines that principle of neutrality. Judge Manning recognized this fact and took appropriate action."
Find me in the Constitution that the U.S. is to be neutral towards religion. True, it's to be neutral among religions, but where does it say it's to be neutral towards religion. And if it's to be neutral, then why should it withdraw support from an organization that allows all religions, excluding only those people who profess no religion at all? That's not neutral towards religion, that's hostile.
I'm also curious about "the simultaneous exclusion of secular organizations from this benefit". Has an organization that accepts atheists as well as religious believers been excluded from such support? I doubt it. As long as the DoD gives such organizations (that ask) such support, what Constitutional violation occurs when it gives aid to other organizations that exclude atheists?
The Boy Scouts of America, a private organization, require youth who participate in their activities to affirm a belief in God and expels youth who decline to do so. Yet Congress and the Pentagon have chosen to provide the Boy Scouts -- and no other youth organization - with a unique and lucrative benefit which, for this summer’s Jamboree, amounts to $8 million in federal spending to assist the Boy Scouts in providing a summer camp experience for its youth. No other youth organization is allowed to compete for this generous federal benefit, the ACLU noted.
That last sentence needs facts to back it up. Who else has applied for such support and has been turned down? If there is no other, then that's a bald-faced lie.
The injunction follows a March 16, 2005 decision by Judge Manning ruling that the Department of Defense’s special treatment of the Boy Scouts violates the Constitution’s requirement of governmental neutrality towards religious activity. The religious leaders who brought the case applauded the decision.
Ah, yes, the "two prominent Chicago religious leaders." One is a Reform Rabbi in the suburbs and the other is apparently a Pastor Emeritus at a large Methodist parish in Chicago. I haven't heard of either one before this, so I don't know particularly how "prominent" they are. Not that this alone invalidates their particular views, but it seems that the ACLU is guilty of some spin here.
Pentagon support for the quadrennial Jamboree extends far beyond simply providing a venue for the event. Indeed, evidence in the case demonstrated that the Pentagon’s $8 million expenditure included a half-million dollars for temporary workers to erect and break down tents and $65,000 for commemorative mementos to mark the Jamboree.
My son set up his own damn tent. I suspect that this is actually tarps, etc., for DoD personnel and facilities. And my son got one of those commemorative mementos; those are recruiting expenses, not support to the BSA.
The direct funding provided to the Jamboree -- at levels offered to no other youth group
Again, I'm going to stress; how do you know they aren't offered to any other group? Has any other group asked for the same kind and level of support? Did they get turned down? I'll bet not.
-- is particularly alarming not only because of the BSA’s exclusions of non-believers but also because of the explicitly religious aspects of the Jamboree, the ACLU said. Troop leaders are issued a guidebook by the Boy Scouts of America indicating that a prayer book is "required personal camping equipment" for all youth attendees.
I've heard conflicting reports on this. I'm not sure that's true. If I can remember and find my son's stuff, I'll check. But believe me, no one's frisking the kids when they walk in to make sure they're carrying their Vedas.
The BSA also issues a "Duty to God" booklet for each participant that recommends prayers for each day of the Jamboree.
Well, duh, we swear "Duty to God", what do you expect?
Most important, however, is the exclusion of non-believers from this government-funded event.
Kind of hard for an atheist to honestly swear he'll do his Duty to God.
Because of this, Judge Manning found, the statute that provides special treatment and special funding for the Boy Scouts Jamboree is not neutral with regards to religion. The Judge’s decision reasoned that the government aid was "not offered to a broad range of groups; rather, it is specifically targeted toward the Boy Scouts, which…is a religious organization from which agnostics and atheists are excluded."
Yup, and it'll be interesting to see whether higher courts agree with Judge Manning that the government can't offer support to groups that require members to have any kind of religious belief (and that doesn't specify any particular religion or denomination). Especially after Bush puts one or two more justices on the Supremes - hell, maybe 3. If they're right, look for lawsuits across the nation regarding property tax law, income tax law, getting my parish to pay for the cops that are going to close off the road in front of our church for a 1/2 hour so we can have a procession, getting the cops to close off the streets for the parades on Memorial Day that involve saying prayers for the war dead, etc.
"This is not an attack on the Boy Scouts," said Rabbi Gerson of Oak Park Temple. "Rather, it is a challenge to the federal government’s preferential treatment of a religious organization. Government simply cannot give special treatment to a private group that excludes young men who do not profess a particular religious faith."
Rabbi Gerson tells a lie. The BSA does not exclude young men who do not profess a particular religous faith. I challenge him to name that particular religious faith. In fact, the BSA is quite clear in numerous statements and publications that it's members need profess no particular religous faith; it accepts the profession of any faith.
I hate these SOBs. Just absolutely despise them.
The original title was
Prominent Chicago Religious Leaders Applaud Court Order Ending Pentagon’s Special Funding for Boy Scout Jamboree
but the posting script won't accept the ACLU's rather long-winded title. There's a limit of 100 characters.
Not really ANY faith. You must profess a belief in God (big G). Wiccans and athiests and Rastafanarians and Scientologists need not apply.
Very nice.
This is truly a sickening setback.
We can't turn around without being reminded how important Bush's nominations to the Supreme Court are. Not even the Civil War jeopardized this country's survival like the composition of this court does.
I believe that you are quite wrong about that (except for the atheists). What is your evidence for this? Please quote from official BSA sources.
Presuming that by the "big G" you are talking about monotheistic faiths, you might check out the official BSA web site at this page for the various religious awards that Scouts are allowed to wear. Note that they include awards for both the Hindu and Mormon faith, neither of which are monotheistic.
Isn't that the truth; and still people on here carp about WHO Bush may appoint, as if he's going to appoint somebody who isn't a conservative.
We have to be vigilant that the "one issue" people don't "help" the left destroy this ONE CHANCE we have worked so hard for.
So strange some of these federales!
What do you think those two are going through in prison? Maybe the death penalty SHOULDN'T be imposed on them ....
Add Shinto and Buddhists to that list. Buddhists are on the Religous Award list, but Shinto don't seem to be (which may only mean that there's no Shinto association in America that's come up with an award). Some Buddhists don't believe in any kind of incarnate deity, although they do believe that there's a supernatural plane that you won't gain access to until you live morally. And Shinto believers believe in good spirits in both inanimate objects and from dead people who had led exemplary lives.
In fact, I once attended a Troop dinner at a Buddhist temple that sponsored the Troop.
My son's Boy Scout troop has no such policy, nor am I aware of one at a district level. They'll take any boy who wants to join, irregardless of religious faith. There is no religious faith question on the boy scout application, nor one for leaders.
The Boy Scouts are one of the most inclusive organizations out there. They allow Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists (I know for a fact that The Tao of Pooh qualifies for the "religious or philosophical text" requirement), et al. Athiests can be Boy Scouts. That's what Unitarianism is for. And I'm pretty sure even Wiccans can be Boy Scouts.
It seems to me the only group the Boy Scouts don't allow are a**holes.
I am so ready for the attorney general to start pressing treason charges against ACLU lawyers.
There are times when I wish the Congress would quote Jackson to these self appointed bench legislators: "The Supreme Court has made it's decision, now let them enforce it." I fail to see where in the Constitution that the power of the purse was delegated to the Judiciary.
Absolutely untrue. I'm pretty sure there have been Wiccan Boy Scouts (though why any boy would want to be a Wiccan is beyond me). And Scientology probably actively disallows its adherants from Scouting. I didn't know Rastafarianism is a religion (I thought it was a political movement).
I know for a fact that Taoists can be Boy Scouts, and they don't believe in "Big G" God. The same is true for Shinto.
The ACLU truly disgusts me. I think Ollie North's name for them is totally appropriate; the "Always Careless with Liberties Union.
If a Scout or Scouter tells his leaders (or announces publicly) that he has no religous faith whatsoever, he will (after a lengthy process) find himself de-registered. If he has a religous faith that does not happen to incorporate God or any specific deity, he'll be fine. Depends on how you define "atheist", I guess.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.