Parents miss Mass, kids get ax

NY Daily News ^ | 06.27.05 | NANCY DILLON

[Coleus]

Parents miss Mass, kids get ax

The pastor of a Staten Island Catholic church is playing holy hardball - kicking hundreds of kids out of religious ed classes because their families aren't showing up at Mass.

The Rev. Michael Cichon, pastor of St. Joseph/St. Thomas in Pleasant Plains, used each family's bar-coded donation envelope to track attendance.

He's tossed about 300 kids from classes and told them not to reapply until next April.

Without the classes, children cannot receive the sacraments, meaning some youngsters who thought they'd be making their First Communion next year will have to wait.

The suspensions, legal under church doctrine, were a shock to many parents with kids enrolled in the 1,400-child program, which caters to kids who don't attend Catholic schools.

"It's hurtful," said Joseph LoPizzo, 38, whose 6-year-old son was booted. "I've been a parishioner at that church for 23 years - longer than he's been the reverend."

LoPizzo said he paid the $150 for his son's Thursday afternoon classes last year, but his father-in-law's illness hampered the family's church attendance.

"I've just never heard of a church kicking you out," complained Lisa Nicol, 36, who got a letter saying her 7-year-old twin daughters had been barred from classes. "They should be more welcoming and sensitive."

The pastor said he suspended kids from the 2005-2006 after-school program because Mass is an "essential" component of the Catholic faith.

The affected families were attending church less than once a month, he said.

Cichon insisted that the move has nothing to do with the lack of a donation.

"There are many families who put absolutely nothing inside the envelopes they submit," he said.

Originally published on June 27, 2005

[Hermann the Cherusker]

So when you give to the needy

Giving to the Church is not giving to the Needy. Ditto for donations to Colleges, Hospitals, Libraries, Museums and other institutions.

The Verses you quote discuss "Almsgiving" which is the donation of surplus money to the poor and destitute, to widows, to orphans, the sick, etc. That is, humanitarian relief, and a just (PRIVATE!) redistribution of the goods of the world.

Tithing, and donating to Institutions is not "Almsigiving" but "Benefaction". There is nothing wrong with a Benefactor being known, so that people might be both grateful to him, and also pray for him to God. But the two are distinct. Almsgiving is a form of the virtue of charity and is something voluntary arising out of the free will without any compulsion or obligation upon our part towards the person who benefits. It is also a gift of money, goods, or time that ultimately goes to a specific person. Benefaction is an obligtion towards society in social justice for the holders of excess goods. Benefaction benefits an Instutition, that serves the public, not specific persons in need.

Look at it this way. Andrew Carnegie was very rich. He had an obligation to society to uses the riches it had permitted him to acquire to benefit society as a whole - hence his libraries and museums and educational and research instutitions. He also had an obligation to assist the poor out of his abundance, but not an obligation to assist every poor person, so that what he did for a specific one might be an act of voluntary charity instead of something compelled. It is these acts of charity which should be secret, not our donations to societal instutions, including the Church.

[mlmr]

Thank you.

[MeanWestTexan]

Thithing (or any donation to a church) is an "act of rightousness" and should be done in secret. Look again.

[FourtySeven]

no, if you are looking for a catholic answer to a question, you would go to a catholic source. However if you were to go to another outside source you would probably find a different answer...

Well, that's how this all got started. You wanted to know how a Catholic would respond to Matt 1:25.

So I fail to see the problem.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Thithing (or any donation to a church) is an "act of rightousness" and should be done in secret. Look again.

Tithing was done quite openly in the time of Jesus. See the example of Him paying the Temple Tax for Himself and St. Peter, or the widow and her mite.

[Zavien Doombringer]

As mentioned above, in the eternal aspect, He is constantly dying. He is the eternal sacrifice. But for the sake of temporality, the crucifix is a reminder of the sacrifice, first and foremost.

This is where you err...

Christ is a Risen Lord, he isn't a sacrifice anymore, He WAS the sacrifice.

It was in the resurrection that the promise was fulfilled.

His death on the cross was the proxy for us, we are the ones deserving to be there. But he DIED, not dying!

He is the Lamb of God that WAS Slain... not being slain...

OK, I can see a crucifix being a reminder of the sacrifice... I do not believe Christ wants us to be looking at a image of what you believe to be what He looked like...Unfortunatly, if the crucifix were to be accurate, you need to add the stripes made by the flagellum...not hardly a sight for your eyes. My God does not hang on the cross, he is alive and lives amoung us in His Spirit as he sits on the Bema seat in Heaven.

..."I am the way the truth and the life, no one gets to the Father but by me.." - Jesus

..."1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"...

[AgThorn]

"Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you." (St. John 6.54)

Well, lets' just leave our agreement on this school being wrong in denying the children the 'sacraments' because of thier parents bad support, and that way we are 'in unison' in our belief. Our differences on theology and biblical understandings can be had another day. God bless!

[Hermann the Cherusker]

OK, I can see a crucifix being a reminder of the sacrifice... I do not believe Christ wants us to be looking at a image of what you believe to be what He looked like

"And I saw: and behold in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the ancients, a Lamb standing, as it were slain" (Apocalypse 5.6)

[Zavien Doombringer]

"a Lamb standing, as it were slain"

Ok, it's a lamb, a baby sheep... Symbolic of Christ, who WAS slain.

[fatima]

OK who are are the dogs and swines? "These people are dogs and swine, and you are casting holy things and pearls before them. And if you don't like those terms and their application to these people, take it up with Jesus and the Holy Fathers of the Church".



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[fatima]

Hope your Dad and Granddad were really,really good.But of course they were.You are going to heaven and I am going to hell.

[fatima]

I never said I was better.Hermann the Cherusker
-wideawake,First of all I would say God Love you very much.

[JSteff]

If you are referring to me as a Catholic basher you are mistaken. I am Catholic and my mom taught/ran the CCD program at our parish for years.

It is not only the idea of them kicking out kids that gets me, but using bar-coded envelopes to track donations and attendance. That is just too sign of the devil, big government like of them.

If the kids are going and the teacher is good something is getting through. Kids are NOT stupid and totally in need of parents to learn.

Repetition of prayer with or without, mommy, daddy, big brother parish can have stunning effects on a child. Several I knew from my childhood days whose parents and family life was terrible are now outstanding Catholics, citizens, and just good people in our community and parish.

Something got through to them, even if it was just and hour or two in CCD every week... and no bar-codes back then.

Humm. Who would have thought it possible with no bar-codes to track them and or their parents?

That priest just seems to think like a government official. Things not according to his plan so nothing will be learned. The Holy Spirit will not get through? The children might just be getting enough to learn right from wrong. Some guiding influence will get through. We need to have that sort of faith.

Explain then how so many saints came from un-Catholic beginnings to be saints? Jeez with no bar-codes I just can't see how it was possible.

/not

[xsmommy]

well then you and i misunderstand each other. i am not defending or denouncing the priest for what he did in this situation. I think it is a problem that kids are not taken to Mass, but i also don't think they should be penalized for it and denied a catholic education (via CCD). it is a problem for which i don't have an answer. But for those insinuating somehow that nonCatholics should be in CCD classes, and that it should be used as an evangelization opportunity, well that's just silly. It isn't designed for that and there can be other means to reach out to others of different faiths. Until my youngest was diagnosed with the learning disability all three of my kids were in Catholic school. In Northern VA catholic school education is highly sought after by catholics and noncatholics alike. it has always been my feeling that a catholic education should be given first to catholic children and then if openings remained, to noncatholics (because in my opinion, the motive of noncatholic parents seeking out a catholic school for their child is to get them a private school education at a deeply discounted rate).

i don't recall what it was you said that had me thinking you were a catholic basher, so i apologize. but they do abound on FR and they do love to come to a catholic thread, where catholics are discussing a problem amongst themselves, and i find that highly objectionable. Again, my apologies. : )

[JSteff]

"Do you really think the pastor did this in order to make sure children did not attend religious education? "Why do you assume the first?"

Why do you assume that what ever the reason he is doing it it will not have the effect of keeping children out of class (the stated goal according to the priest).

This effectively punishes the kids by preventing them from getting ANY sort of religious education. It would be nice to have the support of the parents, but if not at least give the Holy Spirit the chance to help the kids learn.

Many saints came from families and circumstances where the family life and or circumstance was/were not supportive of the church. Saint Paul for one. He still ended up okay and no bar-codes of others attendance were necessary.

Trust the Holy Spirit and the ability of a good teacher to teach. Don't deny that chance because a bar-coded envelope says the parents weren't there.

If they are not it just shows the Parish Priest needs to talk to the parents about their belief and attendance... it does not say the children should not have the chance to be exposed to the teachings so the Holy Spirit has a chance to work for them.

No negative assumption on my part, it is the priest denying the children the chance to learn because the parents don't fit the mold of what he believes is necessary for the children to learn and be enlightened.

Not exactly based in past Catholic history of learning by one mans idea of what will be necessary for enlightenment to occur. Trust in the Holy Spirit.. not a bar-code.

[7thson]

As a Catholic, I wish the Church - across this nation - would publicbly kick out the politicians who do not support Church Doctrine and yet always go to Mass. Kick out guys like Kerry, Kennedy, Pelosi, etc.

[VermiciousKnid]

I went to public school and CCD when I was a kid, but since I didn't go to the LOCAL school, my teacher, the late Sister Mary Arnold (GRHS) couldn't watch to make sure we went to church. She used to call my own parish each and every Sunday to confirm our attendance at Mass.

For my classmates, however, Sister was stationed outside the church checking off names. Anyone she didn't see had some 'splainin' to do.

Regards,

[Hermann the Cherusker]

The dogs and swine are those who disdain and trample the Catholic faith. In this case, it is these parents.

They are not literally dogs and swine of course, but they are described as such because they act like them with respect to our Lord's parabalistic saying.

Again, please read the exposition of the passage by the Fathers and explain how it does not apply to this situation.

[Zavien Doombringer]

Unfortunate that the children just learned that Jesus doesn't want them unless they pay...

Sad state of affairs here.

[Cultural Jihad]

OK who are are the dogs and swines? "These people are dogs and swine, and you are casting holy things and pearls before them. And if you don't like those terms and their application to these people, take it up with Jesus and the Holy Fathers of the Church".

All people tend to emphasize certain Scripture verses over others. The analogy of 'dogs and swine' was chosen over, say, 'seventy times seven' or 'Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.'