Now lets hear the cowboys pile on about their SUVs. I just want to say that hybrids will have a place, first as a commuter or delivery vehicle or fleet vehicle then perhaps for heavier duty.
Posted on 06/25/2005 1:22:51 AM PDT by goldstategop
Toyota Motor Corp. boasts that its hot-selling Prius gasoline-electric hybrid doesn't have to be plugged in.
But a growing number of hybrid buffs interested in further boosting the car's fuel economy are asking, "Why not?"
By replacing the Prius' batteries with a more powerful array and recharging it using a standard electric outlet at home, engineers have enabled the hybrid to get more than 100 miles per gallon of gasoline....
But the plug-in Prius is the firm's principal claim to fame.
In May, Energy Control Systems entered its Prius in the Tour del Sol fuel economy rally in New York. The car won its class by averaging 102 mpg over the 150-mile course. Hanssen said it cost $1 to charge the batteries the night before the race and about $4 for the gas it consumed.
If hybrid makers added plug-in, Hanssen said, mass production could get the extra cost down to about $3,000 over that of a regular hybrid model.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
How could the plug in version cost $3K more? I think someone could come up with a home hobbyist kit for $100 or so.
It includes a battery swap.
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
I had a leased EV1. Remembering to recharge it was never a problem. You come home. You plug in.
My charger had a timer on it so that it would start charging after midnight when the electric rates are about 1/10 of the day rate.
People interested in this issue should know that the
electric car, or the lack thereof,
is stictly an issue of cost.
Very practical electric cars could be built today.
Several years ago, there were GM and Honda electric
cars that sorta worked. With new lithium-polymer
batteries, these cars would be practical.
Now lets hear the cowboys pile on about their SUVs. I just want to say that hybrids will have a place, first as a commuter or delivery vehicle or fleet vehicle then perhaps for heavier duty.
Let me give an example of a 'cost decision'
involving an electric car.
There are devices known as 'supercapacitors'.
With supercaps, you can, very fast, store/release electricity.
To store the energy of a '0 to 60 mph' acceleration,
you would need about $2000 of supercaps.
This would make 'regen' braking, a lot better,
and the car would be more versatile.
On the other hand, does it make sense to spend
two grand to store electricity worth one cent?
My SUV gets over 150 MPF (Miles Per Flush). And no potty stops required.
Not that you have an agenda or anything....
All else equal, I wonder how much better fuel economy benchmark the Prius would get with just a plug-in provision w/o a new battery, I'd imagine it would be 2-5 mpg improvement at least..
That's just scary.
1 gallon of gasoline = 1.3*10^8 Joules = 36.1 kilowatt hours.
To deliver 10 gallons of gasoline worth of electricity in 5 minutes would be 361 kWh / 0.083 hours = 4.3 megawatts of power.
A typical house main supply is 200 amps @ 110 volts = 22 kilowatts.
So to charge your car with 10 gallons of gasoline's worth of electricity in 5 minutes, you need to plug in the equivalent of 200 houses' maximum electricity supply.
Even if electric motors are significantly more efficient than gasoline engines and you recharge every day instead of once a week, that is still a lot of power. I think you're going to need a thicker extension cord.
Hope it works and helps weans us from Mid East and Venezuelan oil.
I have heard speculation that you would get much more efficient charging from braking. If not, you need a fire hose at the gas station and perhaps your 220 at home would not do it, at least not in 5 minutes. Overnight maybe.
----------------------- Toshiba will bring the new rechargeable battery to commercial products in 2006. Initial applications will be in the automotive and industrial sectors, where the slim, small-sized battery will deliver large amounts of energy while requiring only a minute to recharge. For example, the battery's advantages in size, weight and safety highly suit it for a role as an alternative power source for hybrid electric vehicles.
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_03/pr2901.htm
I would like to see this become more prevalent, because hopefullly fuel prices would come down, esp as hybrids and high mileage conventional vehicles displace SUVs. Anyone know btw, how good the displacement on demand thing is with the Dodge Magnum and Chrysler 300C (both with the Hemi).
Your math is flawed, the amount of raw energy (Joules) in gasoline is not the amount that is actually used to power the car. Gasoline engines are typically 20-30% efficient, so it's more like 7-8KWh per gallon of gasoline.
In addition, the batteries will not store 10 gallons worth of power within them. Prolly more like 1-3gals worth of electricity. It's still a hybrid, not an electric car. The batteries supplement the gasoline power plant.
"Even if electric motors are significantly more efficient than gasoline engines..."
--This is not a matter of debate. Electric motors/generators are 80-96% efficient. http://www.psnh.com/Business/SmallBusiness/Motor.asp
It's been known for a long time (~200 years) that electric motors are more efficient. The problem is providing a power source for them. Battery efficiency (power density) needs to improve by at least 1 order of magnitude for electric cars to be practical.
How do you recover energy from braking?
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