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To: nathanbedford
Toshiba claims it has invented a revolutionary lithium-ion battery which can be charged in minutes, about as long as it takes to gas up a conventional car.

That's just scary.

1 gallon of gasoline = 1.3*10^8 Joules = 36.1 kilowatt hours.
To deliver 10 gallons of gasoline worth of electricity in 5 minutes would be 361 kWh / 0.083 hours = 4.3 megawatts of power.
A typical house main supply is 200 amps @ 110 volts = 22 kilowatts.

So to charge your car with 10 gallons of gasoline's worth of electricity in 5 minutes, you need to plug in the equivalent of 200 houses' maximum electricity supply.

Even if electric motors are significantly more efficient than gasoline engines and you recharge every day instead of once a week, that is still a lot of power. I think you're going to need a thicker extension cord.

15 posted on 06/25/2005 4:32:01 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Bork should have had Kennedy's USSC seat and Kelo v. New London would have gone the other way.)
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To: KarlInOhio
You have put your finger on a problem, you would need a fire hose to recharge. Here is Toshiba's press release with a couple of excerpts. I have been trying to figure how to invest in this thing.

I have heard speculation that you would get much more efficient charging from braking. If not, you need a fire hose at the gas station and perhaps your 220 at home would not do it, at least not in 5 minutes. Overnight maybe.

----------------------- Toshiba will bring the new rechargeable battery to commercial products in 2006. Initial applications will be in the automotive and industrial sectors, where the slim, small-sized battery will deliver large amounts of energy while requiring only a minute to recharge. For example, the battery's advantages in size, weight and safety highly suit it for a role as an alternative power source for hybrid electric vehicles.

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_03/pr2901.htm


17 posted on 06/25/2005 4:52:37 AM PDT by nathanbedford (The UN was bribed and Good Men Died)
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To: KarlInOhio

Your math is flawed, the amount of raw energy (Joules) in gasoline is not the amount that is actually used to power the car. Gasoline engines are typically 20-30% efficient, so it's more like 7-8KWh per gallon of gasoline.

In addition, the batteries will not store 10 gallons worth of power within them. Prolly more like 1-3gals worth of electricity. It's still a hybrid, not an electric car. The batteries supplement the gasoline power plant.

"Even if electric motors are significantly more efficient than gasoline engines..."

--This is not a matter of debate. Electric motors/generators are 80-96% efficient. http://www.psnh.com/Business/SmallBusiness/Motor.asp
It's been known for a long time (~200 years) that electric motors are more efficient. The problem is providing a power source for them. Battery efficiency (power density) needs to improve by at least 1 order of magnitude for electric cars to be practical.


19 posted on 06/25/2005 5:02:00 AM PDT by foobeca
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To: KarlInOhio

Typical residential electrical service is 200 amps at 240 volts (actually often closer to 250 volts) yielding up to 50kw.


23 posted on 06/25/2005 5:25:01 AM PDT by RedWireNut
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To: KarlInOhio; foobeca; nathanbedford

I would also point out that a 200A service would be at 220V, not 110. I suppose one could get 3-phase, but that's a whole new ball game. Or run a 7.5kV line into an outlet in the garage!!

Of course, charging the batteries is not 100% efficient either, you'd do well to get 80%.


27 posted on 06/25/2005 6:06:08 AM PDT by biggerten (Love you, Mom.)
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