Terri Schiavo's remains buried in Clearwater

Sun-Sentinel ^ | June 20, 2005 | MITCH STACY

[Voir Dire]

"all Michael Schiavo needed to have Terri killed, was hearsay evidence."

That's an excellent point.

And while Florida law does not require a written document, and does require clear and convincing evidence to overcome the presumption in favor of life, it is difficult to accept that such hearsay evidence met that standard. This is particularly so because there was conflicting evidence on this very issue.

For the judge to not even get his butt off the bench and go see the subject before he decided she should die is a disturbing travesty.

[SoVaDPJ]

I thought I'd been reading the threads pretty carefully, and I was in favor of keeping Ms. Schiavo's feeding tube in place, as she had nothing in writing. I have my plans in writing--did people actually say on here that they would not respect a family members' living will, or that they didn't support them in general?

[Voir Dire]

"Any one who has it in writing that they wish to be disconnected from any and all life saving treatment should also be allowed "their" choice to end "their" own life."

I agree with that as well, although I understand that other Freepers may disagree.

[GloriaJane]

For the judge to not even get his butt off the bench and go see the subject before he decided she should die is a disturbing travesty.

Yes, very disturbing. Life only lasts a fleeting few moments in the scale of time. But death lasts forever..

Should they find a cure, as I saw one Dr. last week on TV talking about their expanding research in regenerating brain cells using adult stem cell technology and how close they are to their goals, it will be "forever" too late for Terri.

[Robert_Paulson2]

I have no idea... being a deliberate non participant.

but reading a few of themthe last few days... I am developing a curiousity as to what the statistical breakdown would be between those who want living wills to be in force, even if it means death by disconnection... vs those who want life at any cost... and the areas of variation between the two... whatever those may be.

I would love to see a freeper poll.

[SoVaDPJ]

I would love to see a freeper poll.

Oh, so would I now--this is a terrific question!

[GloriaJane]

How about a breakdown of those who wish that "their" civil rights "not" be trampled?..... Either way.

[TAdams8591]

OJ Simpson was never proven guilty, either.

[Voir Dire]

"OJ Simpson was never proven guilty, either." He was not proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt (according to the jury who sat through that trial) but he was found liable for the deaths in a civil case, where the burden of proof was by a preponderance of the evidence. The clear and convincing standard falls somewhere between those two, and your signature: "Off the cuff comments are NOT CLEAR and CONVINCING evidence" is where this case is flawed. Make that "off the cuff hearsay evidence

[ClancyJ]

We are going to have to have this discussion, because a lot of us in this generation are going to have to face life and death decisions at a time when social security may not have the money to keep us all on life support till we reach 160 years of age... even though the technology might exist in 30 years to do just that.

Who is going to control individual choice? The government directed by the religious right? the liberal left? or individuals after their own conscience? On a responsibility level: Who is going to decide and WHO is going to pay?

Sounds like you have bought the propaganda from the euthanasists and the scientologists.

Are you in favor of the government setting up criteria required in order to be allowed to live? (because we cannot afford all those weak you know)

Do you think the laws are being progressively altered to put more and more discretion in the hands of some and against the weak - pushing them toward death by their own decision or denial of care?

Did you know that Florida is the headquarters for the Scientologists and part of their belief is that the deformed, weak have no place in society? Also, the euthanasia movement pushes propaganda about self-determination, right to die - why?

Have you bought into the propaganda that your ultimate goal should be to insure that you do not have pain, or inconvenience at the end, so choose an easy death early?

[ClancyJ]

did people actually say on here that they would not respect a family members' living will, or that they didn't support them in general

There are all kind of answers to that. Frankly - I hope that nobody asks me to kill them because I don't think I can. If they want that fine - I just don't think I could do it unless it was to not prolong a death that is already coming or a death with extreme pain. I do not want to kill a loved one and have to live with it, so I pray that I am never in that position.

There is some question now about the safety and validity of the Living Will. Some have said it is a death trap and that if you changed your mind at the last minute - your spoken wishes could be ignored (because you are now not fit) or something. I'm trying to find out because I'm working on getting mine done now.

In Florida - there is a disturbing leeway in writing legislation.

Re Florida law statutes - "They also state that advanced directives providing for treatment should not carry the same weight as directives withdrawing care, and advanced directives should not compel the physican to provide them, regardless if the patient needs them (Doty).

Doty is part of the Florida Bioethics Network as well as Project Grace. One of the changes in the law in CB/CB/SB 2228 includes the Bioethics Network as part of the process of withdrawing care." posted by mercyme)

People here right now are so focused on right-to-die rights instead of right-to-live rights that they are falling right into the trap of buying the propaganda of the euthanasia movement. How very easy for the movement to swoop in and put SOME over all citizens and give them the power of writing the laws that will determine if you or a member of your family CAN live.

Now - wake up a minute - and just imagine that you want to live until you can't live any longer. But, your fear of not getting the right to die early, has allowed euthanasists and society-refiners to script laws that TELL YOU WHEN YOU HAVE TO DIE.

Do you want the state, some elitists somewhere setting the standards that determine if you can live. No matter that you want that child - the state now has the power to withdraw care and kill it.

This is what I am fighting and all the Pro-MS posters just will not look at this fact. They are fighting for the right to die for themselves and for the right to die of their relatives. Just what happens when those relatives want to live and are not allowed to?

And - remember - there are an awful lot of people that will want your assets more than you someday. What if society has drifted to the expectation that all must die by the age 85. By then, the young will have bought into this "new-age" and you are surrounded by ghouls as you are made to leave this life against your will.

Government does not need the power to kill its citizens. Period - end of story.

[Robert_Paulson2]

I will take that to mean that as a freeper you believe living wills by individuals, that proscribe easy death or non application of lifesupport in the event of various medical circumstances is morally wrong... and should be overturned by the legal system, our laws or governmental intervention to force such treatments on the unwilling.

thanks.

[Earthdweller]

"Yeah, I had a family member die slowly from cancer, it sucks. She didn't want to ever be in Terri's shape, she was a nurse and didn't want that for her." "Terri "died" years ago."

I have had the privilege of knowing many brain damaged people and for the most part they are gleeful and cheery. So what's your point? That all brain damaged people are like dying people?

You can't compare the two.

[texasflower]

I'm not the one who claimed to KNOW anything about what was said between Michael and Terri.

You are the one who said that they never discussed it. YOU are the one who called Michael a liar.

Quite emphatically as a matter of fact.

I want to know how YOU know that.

[texasflower]

I never said anyone should "forgive or forget" and I didn't I anything about this being an apology of any sort.

But I would have thought someone would at least be glad for the Schindler's that Terri's ashes are nearby and not in Pennsylvania.

[Earthdweller]

Why she is being buried there?

Looks like one town can expect a lot of revenue from pilgrimages to Terri's burial site.

Clearwater Florida, especially downtown Clearwater, is Scientology's worldwide spiritual headquarters and main training ground. The Flag Service Organization, located in Clearwater, provides the highest level of Scientology training and is the largest single Scientology "church" in the world. Scientology brochures claim that Clearwater Florida has the "largest community of Scientologists in the world." Back in 1998, Scientology generated from 1.5 to 2 million dollars of income per week. This material success enables them to maintain ownership of tens of millions of dollars worth of property (about 40 buildings) as well as many businesses: To date, the church owns more than $50-million in Clearwater-area properties and is nearing completion of a $50-million Mediterranean Revival-style building nicknamed "Super Power." Additionally, the church now has 565 hotel rooms in and near downtown for visiting Scientologists who consider Clearwater their spiritual mecca.

[Robert Drobot]

You are a man after my own heart!

Please let me know if there are any takers, and if there is a stop point on your offer.

Robert

[Earthdweller]

Scientologists believe (1) that a disabled person is in such a state due to his or her own failings, (2) the disabled person will deliberately move in the direction of death, and (3) disabled people (Individuals who score low on the emotional tone scale) will also bring death to those around them. (See L. Ron Hubbard's book, Self Analysis, chapter 4)

Their world base of operations is in Clearwater.

One of Scientology's major goals is to change society's views about death, dying.

Indeed, Greer is a longtime crony of various Scientology lawyers. This is a picture of him from years ago.

Left to right: Chief Judge David A. Demers, Tim Johnson, Probate Judge George Greer, John Blakely, Bruce Bokor, and then Wally Pope. Wally Pope was (at times) listed as Scientology's lead counsel in various parts of the Lisa McPherson-related cases. Blakely and Bokor are or were both partners in the law firm Johnson, Pope, Bokor, Ruppel, & Burns, which often represents Scientology.

[FairOpinion]

I didn't know that about Scientology.

But it's eerily similar to this philosophy:

"The authority of certain physicians to be designated by name in such manner that persons who, according to human judgment, are incurable can, upon a most careful diagnosis of their condition of sickness, be accorded a mercy death."

-- Adolf Hitler, 1939

[Robert Drobot]

Terri Schindler-Schiavo, please forgive us.

Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us.
Saint Joseph, Patron of the Universal Church and Protector of the Faithful,
pray for us.
Saints Peter and Paul, pray for us.
Pope Saint Gregory the Great, pray for us.
Pope Saint Pius V, pray for us.
Pope Saint Leo the Great, pray for us.
Pope Saint Pius X, pray for us.
Saint Padre Pio, pray for us.
Saint Athanasius, fierce fighter of the Arians, pray for us.
Saint Clare, the great apostle of Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration, pray for us.
Sister Maria Lucia of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart, pray for us
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, pray for us.
Father Gommar DePauw, pray for us.
Father Paul Wickens, pray for us.
Saint Michael the Archangel, protect the faithful from the snares of the disciples of Lucifer in disguise, and
bring ruin to those who intimidate, oppress, imprison, torture, and murder His faithful servants
throughout the world.