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US Church Leaders Justify Ordination of Gay Bishop
The Times of London ^ | June 20, 2005 | Ruth Gledhill

Posted on 06/20/2005 4:26:46 PM PDT by kerrywearsbotox

ANGLICAN leaders will hear for the first time tomorrow a theological justification by the heads of the Canadian and American churches for their actions over homosexuals, which have brought the Anglican community to the brink of schism.

The Primate of the US Anglican Church, the Most Rev Frank Griswold, will deliver a report to a meeting in Nottingham on why it was right to ordain the openly gay Gene Robinson as Bishop of New Hampshire. The Canadian Primate, the Archbishop of Montreal, the Most Rev Andrew Hutchison, will also lead a delegation to explain the actions of the New Westminster Diocese in authorising same-sex blessings.

The US report, To Set Our Hope on Christ, has been prepared by the liberal theologian Mark Mcintosh, of Loyola University, Chicago, and others. Although the Americans have expressed regret for the effects of their actions, they have not expressed repentance and are not expected to do so.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: New Hampshire; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: apostate; ecusa; elca; episcopalchurch; filthyqueer; generobinson; homosexualagenda; homosexualbishop; homosexuality; religiousleft; ucc
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To: seamole; thoughtomator
You remember correctly, seamole. It is my belief that this is a leftist plot to gain control of the money and the land of the mainline denominations, in order to use the money and the pulic pulpit to push the leftist agenda. They are using homosexuals because gay ordination, as we have seen in the Episcopal Church, is a way to quickly drive the traditionalists from the church.

One often hears people ask, "Why don't they start their OWN church?" Well, the reason is that their OWN church wouldn't have bank accounts, land in downtown areas, artworks, endowments, and church-funded schools. They want those treasures in order to give them power and prestige.

You will notice we never hear about attempts to take over the Southern Baptists. Southern Baptist congregations own their land and building independently. If they choose to leave the conference, they take those with them. Mainline denominations like the Episcopalians and the Methodists have their churches and land owned by the denomination. If a congregation decides to leave, they have to abandon their church building and any assets owned by the church.

I am convinced this is what is happening. I wish I had a way to prove it.

21 posted on 06/20/2005 5:17:04 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: kerrywearsbotox
What would one expect from Popes and bishops and all the other names the political arm of religions go by?

Start your own congregation based on the Bible and the Constitution of the United States of America and never let anyone but the members rule your church.

22 posted on 06/20/2005 5:18:58 PM PDT by fightu4it (conquest by immigration and subversion spells the end of US.)
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To: NYer

They've always had a giddy and odd sense of humor on domestic and sexual issues. Isn't it up to the "Supreme Head" - Elizabeth Saxe-Coburg-Gotha "Windsor" - to render a decision on such ecclesial matters as who can get married and the qualifications for holy office? I mean...uh...let's keep with the program gang. Or shut up.

23 posted on 06/20/2005 5:22:05 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Miss Marple

There is really no need, though I do understand your feelings in this, Miss M. The simple fact that they lie, and that they blaspheme suffices to reject communion with them. If they really think getting the property is what it's all about, then there's a verse for that: they have their reward. I would rather worship in a garage surrounded by the faithful saints than in the most physically beautiful cathedral surrounded by heretics and apostates.

In Christ,
Deacon Paul+


24 posted on 06/20/2005 5:22:36 PM PDT by BelegStrongbow (St. Joseph, protector of the Innocent, pray for us!)
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To: BelegStrongbow
I understand your point, but I am not saying the property is what is most important to me. I am trying to explain the motivation of these people. They want the money, and also, they want the platform. And they want to use the money to augment their megaphone.

Aside from the religious aspect, this is also a political fight. Once they control the denomination, you will notice they start speaking out using the church as their authority.

They are thieves, plan and simple. Some of these congregations have been supported by families for generations. Now those people are being driven out of the church so that a bunch of leftists can push their apostate agenda.

25 posted on 06/20/2005 5:27:53 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: Miss Marple
There is an organized conspiracy by liberals, extreme leftists, homosexuals, and anti-Christian secret societies to seize control of mainline institutions and employ them in the service of strange social engineering agendas. There...I've said it. That feels better. Some vague memory of the phrase "or the horse you rode in on" comes to mind...
26 posted on 06/20/2005 5:30:42 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Miss Marple

I think you hit the nail on the head. They're after the assets. Or to repeat an oft-used saying amongst those on the left: follow the money.

Well, they followed the money and over time they've come to control it. The righteous end up with a very difficult choice; to stay with the apostate institutional church or to leave.


27 posted on 06/20/2005 5:37:59 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Eastern Catholicism: tonic for the lapsed Catholic)
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To: Miss Marple
One often hears people ask, "Why don't they start their OWN church?"

Kind of tough to do if you want to keep pretending your church is apostolic. Otherwise, the liberals should just go over to the Unitarians. So they're fighting claw, tooth and nail for their agenda from within the Church. This is happening in all the mainline Churches of course.

I'm watching this all unfold with apprehension. I belong to a fairly conservative parish (one that opposes gay marriage and ordination of active homosexuals), a healthy parish, the largest in the diocese at about 2000 members. I do not know what will happen if the rest of the Anglican commune tells the north Americans to get lost, nor what I would do.

By the way, the infamous Bishop Spong singled out our parish for a couple of pages of criticism in his latest book. It seems that a book reading group in the parish was reading the the notorious book The Da Vinci Code. The priest in charge of adult education found out and asked them to please consider reading another book; he gave them a list of worthwhile authors. Some of the members of the group were offended by this, and left our parish for the most liberal parish in town. Apparently, Spong found out what was happening (the rector of the aforementioned liberal parish is a Spong protege), and wrote about it.

28 posted on 06/20/2005 5:39:02 PM PDT by megatherium
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To: megatherium

I met Spong once. What a pompous ass.


29 posted on 06/20/2005 5:42:47 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: kerrywearsbotox

This kind of heresy is nothing more than the result of having a "rudderless" ship. There is no real central leadership. Without a leader this "ship" will go aground. These ships are legion.


30 posted on 06/20/2005 5:49:54 PM PDT by olezip
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To: sharkhawk

It used to be that a priest who divorced resigned his position and was stripped of his office. Nowadays, they write new liturgies to celebrate the dissolving of a marriage.

In the late 80s, my bishop not only got divorced, but subsequently annulled his own marriage (five children). Later, he remarried a divorced woman on Palm Sunday and went on his honeymoon during Holy Week. He was out of the country on Easter. Clergy were not to conduct marriage services for church members during the penitential seasons of Lent and Advent,yet this bishop thought enough of his flock to thumb his nose at biblical teaching and church tradition. He was a senior bishop at the time. Now, there are several divorced and remarried bishops. Some even divorced their wives to hook up with homosexual partners.

God will not be mocked.


31 posted on 06/20/2005 5:50:53 PM PDT by miele man
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To: BelegStrongbow
I would rather worship in a garage surrounded by the faithful saints than in the most physically beautiful cathedral surrounded by heretics and apostates.

There are those that are doing just that in other countries. It looks like we'll be doing the same in the future.

Remember that those that are trying the change churches are doing it for a couple of reasons. One is to normalize their own sin. The second reason they probably don't even realize that they are doing; that is, they are working for the devil to mislead the flock away from Jesus.

Believers need to be careful where their offerings are ending up.
32 posted on 06/20/2005 5:54:15 PM PDT by dmanLA
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Isn't it up to the "Supreme Head" - Elizabeth Saxe-Coburg-Gotha "Windsor"

That whole "Windsor" thing is such a fraud. It worked good though....nary a commoner realizes that their Royal family are a bunch of Krauts.

33 posted on 06/20/2005 6:02:00 PM PDT by Godebert
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To: kerrywearsbotox

Here's what I say: Never trust a man in a dress. That includes drag queens, priests and middle-eastern retro warriors.


34 posted on 06/20/2005 6:02:22 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (Spade = spade.)
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To: fightu4it

Just the Bible will do - why would the Constitution have anything to do with founding a church?


35 posted on 06/20/2005 6:12:51 PM PDT by Fatalist
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To: pipecorp

"Praise be!"

LOL! Excellent!


36 posted on 06/20/2005 8:07:20 PM PDT by jocon307 (Can we close the border NOW?)
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To: sharkhawk
The Anglican Communion is worldwide. The Episcopal Church of the U.S. (ECUSA) is only one component of the Anglican Communion; ECUSA is the component that elected a (practicing) homosexual (Robinson) to be a Bishop.

ECUSA has effectively been told by the worldwide Anglican Communion to reconsider the ECUSA actions and has effectively been suspended from regular participating in Anglican matters.

ECUSA is resisting.

Most of the worldwide Anglican church, especially in Africa, is totally opposed and unaccepting of practicing homosexuals being in any significant leadership capacity.

Many, many congregants within ECUSA, similarly, are totally opposed to what the leadership of ECUSA has done - and there will probably be a total split in the U. S. church within a matter of a few years or less.

ECUSA is sharply losing membership and hence funding.

So it is important to distinguish between the Episcopal Church in the U.S. and its official leadership (ECUSA) and the worldwide Anglican Communion.

Hope this helps.
37 posted on 06/20/2005 8:41:14 PM PDT by mtntop3 ("He who must know before he believes will never come to full knowledge.")
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To: fightu4it
What would one expect from Popes and bishops and all the other names the political arm of religions go by?

Errr. This is antithetical to what Christ's Chirst (the Catholic and the Orthodox churches) teach.

Start your own congregation based on the Bible and the Constitution of the United States of America and never let anyone but the members rule your church

No, because the Church is based on the teachings of Christ, not the constitution.
38 posted on 06/21/2005 4:57:53 AM PDT by Cronos (Never forget 9/11)
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To: fightu4it

The Constitution is not a Divine document, why found a Church with it, even in part?


39 posted on 06/21/2005 6:02:59 AM PDT by Romish_Papist (The times are out of step with the Catholic Church. God Bless Pope Benedict XVI.)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
I met Spong once. What a pompous ass.

I saw him speak a couple of years ago. He was indeed pompous and condescending.

40 posted on 06/21/2005 12:12:35 PM PDT by megatherium
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