Prove your own ancestry

The Denver Post ^ | June 14, 2005 | Ernesto P. Alvarado

[Millee]

When the University of Colorado asked Ward Churchill to prove his Native-American ethnic identity, it raised the question of what makes a person one race or another.

After all, who is the "we" determining for others who they are? Can someone be Native-American and not be on any tribal roster? Can't individuals be of multiple groups?

In Churchill's case, a group of non-Native professors will decide if he is of a particular ethnic group. Will they begin their process with a self-evaluation of whichever criteria they devise? Should they be asked to first prove their whiteness? Can they?

Can someone decide for you what your ethnic background is and have it listed in a government-approved roster?

[followerofchrist]

"With the Indian tribes, it matters because the tribal governments are sovereignties of parallel authority with the states. It will not do, therefore, to have people simply claiming to be Indians in order to move onto the reservation and live tax free, or get distribution checks from those tribes who have successfully litigated or have successful casino operations."

There's been an ongoing controversy surrounding tribal councils (99% of whom have gaming operations) who banish entire Indian families on technicalities so they can get bigger checks. The banished families have been appealing to "white man's courts" to get relief.

[followerofchrist]

"Between just my wife and I we can claim Native American, African American, Dutch, Scot, English, French, Native Hawaiian, Italian, German, Scandinavian, Russian, and probably some more lurking in there.

But the US gov says we are white."

We'll soon follow Canada and call all people of color "VISABLE minorities." Should we call white people in south central LA visable minorities?

[Millee]

Aaahhh geez, I was hoping to avoid legalities, but I'll have my dog (who believes he is my son) write a formal, written apology to your cat (who believes he is a dog). Are we okay now?????

[k2blader]

But the US gov says we are white.

How does it do that?

Based on your list you have a few options when filling out the ethnicity section on gubmint forms.

[k2blader]

So you support lying on gubmint forms?

[followerofchrist]

I can trump that. I list every animal I have on the census forms, according to their ancestral origin. The black cat is Afro-American. The Palomino horse is Scandanavian. The red horse (Thoroughbred mix) I classified as English because his line originated there. The three dogs were listed as follows: The red dog was called a Kelt, the black dog an Afro-American and the black and white one, mixed race. The Manx cat is from the Isle of Manx. One cat I called Egyptian. Only two boxes were checked on the census, for the black cat and dog. For the human beings, I wrote in (on the sides) every national origin from my geneological record. For me, "light beige."

The census people must hate me.

[followerofchrist]

"Today, I think we have an excess of choices."

There's only one choice for white people. Count me as one of the whiners. I won't be the only race denied any diversity within.

[followerofchrist]

"I will no longer tolerate being referred to as 'white'.
I am a European-American.
If black folks insist on being called African-American, I insist on eschewing the label 'white'."

If we are white, everyone else should be labelled in accordance with their skin tone. Blacks, whites, yellows and every color in between.

Lets make this easier. I'll check these boxes!

Swiss-American
German-American
Scottish-American
English-America
Irish-American
Dutch-American
French-American

See how diverse I am?

[KC_for_Freedom]

Trouble is, the tribe already answered the question: Ward Churchill is not an Indian. He was made an HONORARY member of the tribe for things he wrote once. That's like getting an HONORARY PhD. Can you go and teach with it? No. Because an honorary anything is not real.

I agree with your post. My ancestors on my father's side were nothwest Pacific indians. Now the tribe is actually in Canada. But my father tried unsuccessfully to prove membership based on family lore. The truth is that his mother never listed her indian heritage on any legal forms because at the time it was not something that light skinned natives did. They were trying to fit in the white man's world. (My grandma married a lumberman and left the tribe behind. Today I have indian blood, but was otherwise raised in a pure pre-baby boomer lifestyle.)

If I wished, I am certain that I could go to the tribe, work with them (I was a high school math teacher) and at some time ask for tribal recognition. Maybe a blood test would show this. My tribe has no benefits to give new members, except maybe fishing rights. So it is not a big deal.) But Ward Churchhill only sought honory membership. If he had any sense of dignity he would not be trying to gain affirmative action benefits. Such benefits should be resisted as a matter of pride. What proud person wants to say that they only made it because of someone's chairity? (Colin Powell did admit to this, and I guess this shows integrity, but if he could have made it without this help, I suspect he gladly would have.)

[Tammy8]

I agree with you, but I have also wondered how one would prove what race they are. I bid on government contracts from time to time and on the smaller ones there are catagories that give you preference.
The contracts have little boxes to check for ethnic group- well I personally am a mutt and most others I know are too- so who decides if you are "enough" hispanic or black or other?? I have noticed in the past few years there is a warning above the boxes that you have to be able to prove anything you check. So how would one prove these things?

I do agree people cheat at these things- but that means someone has to decide what race people are. Just shows how silly things have become.

[followerofchrist]

It's quite funny that nearly every white person claims some Indian ancestry. It's the in thing to do. My family doesn't believe me, the family genealogist, that the whisperings that there was a half Indian great great grandmother is a family legend that was born when a Mormon ancestor tried to get an education grant. She discovered no evidence whatsoever of Indian lineage. Before I obtained a photo of the lady in question, and evidence of her irrefuteable Scottish-English ancestry (even the maternal lines), she was a "full blooded reservation Indian." I searched out all Indian records too and came up empty. After being confronted with all the legal documents, my family now believes she was a Florida Indian from 200 years back. I told them that tribe has existed only for a little over 100 years. Now she's a Canadian Indian (the white lady's ancestors lived in Canada for 3 years before coming here after they left the isles). I have photos of our ancestors graves in Canada, thanks to the Mormon lady who went there in search if the Indian. The Indian is now in an unmarked grave or was given a white name because of racism.

What's wrong with being exclusively from Europe? I asked family members that and they retaliated by saying I am ashamed to admit my Indian heritage.

Can I win this argument?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

So you support lying on gubmint forms?

Biologically, there is no such thing as "race."

The gubmint wants to use the artificial concept of "race" as a means of circumventing "equal protection" by granting certain imaginary "races" special privileges and making other imaginary "races" subsidize those privileges.

Show me the genetic marker that makes someone "black."

I defy you.

[Adder]

I guess they would have to tell you what the acceptable criteria is [are?].

You should have little problem since you are just a gurl and everyone EVERYONE knows you automaticly qualify as a victim of a patriarchical society bent on your oppression and victimization.
But how indeed do you prove it?

I firmly agree that we all should just move on....especially now that there is the self identy box on the census which allows you to claim yourself to be whatever you are comfortable with, even if you are whiter than Robert KKK byrd, you might still be more comfortable being black.
And thats just fine.

Until they start handing out money and contracts.

[I am being very sarcastic over the situation, not your post.]

[followerofchrist]

"In "The Lost Land," John C. Chavez estimated that 80 percent of Mexican people have Native-American blood. Since the majority of the Latino people in the United States come from Mexico, this suggests that 80 percent of those 40 million Latinos could be Native-Americans and are not on any tribal rolls."

Mexicans are Indians with Spanish admixture. Because of the varying degrees of Spanish blood, no one can put an ethnic percentage on the "Mexicans." My guess is that they are more Indian than American Indians. I think the 80% figure is low, however, if all people of Mongoloid blood are considered Indian. I can't see 20% of Mexicans being all white. There aren't that many rich unmixed Spaniards there.

I wish I could get money and other perks from England for wars we lost against them.

[followerofchrist]

"My ancestors didn't sign the Cherokee roster, all I have is the family history as proof."

Lore doesn't count, as I learned. Need picture.

[followerofchrist]

"That's HILARIOUS. It reminds me of something the comedian Paul Rodriquez said in a stand-up act: "There are Hispanics as white as Cameron Diaz and as black as Sammy Sosa! That proves to me that Hispanics will sleep with anybody and everybody!"

Hispanics are white, technically. Mexicans and others are called Hispanic because Spaniards took over Mexico and lend a little blood. Hispanics are Europeans. As a result people here are confused and call Indian Mexicans Spanish and Hispanic.

[Tammy8]

The University should have made being a member of a tribe (NOT honorary) the criteria for hiring to begin with. You are right that the government and tribal governments have already made the determination of who is or is not Native American in most if not all tribes.

I am part Cherokee, but the US Government & Cherokee officials ruled that if your ancestor was not on any of the government census rolls you are not Cherokee- period. Some have actually tested this when they have proved an ancestor was Cherokee and yet was not listed on the rolls. It doesn't matter- even in that case, if the Government doesn't say it, it ain't so. I assume it is the same among the other tribes.

[followerofchrist]

"Aaahhh geez, I was hoping to avoid legalities, but I'll have my dog (who believes he is my son) write a formal, written apology to your cat (who believes he is a dog). Are we okay now?????"

We are square now. I can trump you again. While your dog thinks he's your son, I have convinced my cousin's 3 year old that my cat is my son. I explained that he came out of my tummy and then grew the hair. The boy laughed, but I kept repeating it with a straight face and now he's accepted the fact!

[hispanarepublicana]

But not all Mexicans are Indians; this is especially true outside of Mexico City (such as Cuernavaca) where it is very easy to see who is Indian and who is Spanish (even today).

As an interesting sidenote, here is something I snagged from a Hispanic Genealogy Site: ~snip~

Caste System:

In the Colonial Period a system of lineage or race identification was establisheed which divided the inhabitants of New Spain according to the color of their skin and mixture of races. At the top of this racial pyramid were the Spaniards born in Spain. The next level, on a lower step,were the white children of Spaniards, but born in the Americas called criollos. The third element consisted of the castes; i.e., the mixture of Indian, whites, blacks and their respective descendants. Although the caste system formed a racial hierarchy which coincided with economic and social ramifications, the caste system was not official and there was no legal prohibition against marriages between individuals of different levels.

Father             Mother            Offspring 
Spaniard           Indian            mestizo 
mestizo            Spaniard          castizo 
Spaniard           Negra             mulato 
Spaniard           mulata            morisco 
Spaniard           morisca           chino or albino 
Spaniard           albina            salta pa' atrás 
Indian             salta pa' atrás   lobo 
lobo               china             jíbaro 
lobo               india             zambaigo 
zambaigo           india             cambujo 
zambaigo           loba              calpamulato 
cambujo            mulata            albarazado 
calpamulato        cambuja           tente en el aire 
tente en el aire   mulata            no te entiendo 
barnocino          mulata            coyote 
no te entiendo     india             torna atrás 
albarazado         mestiza           barnocino 
indio              mestiza           coyote 
coyote             india             chamizo 
chamizo            mestiza           ahi te estás 
negro              india             jaracho 
indio              negra             zambo 
negro              zamba             zambro prieto 
blanco             mulata            tercerón or cuarterón cuatralvo 

Independence from Spain in 1821 did away with some of the classifications. President Benito Juárez abolished the entire caste system with the Constitution of 1857. I have seen in the early records:
Spaniard (español)
indio (Indian)
mestizo (child of Spanish father and Indian mother)
Negro
Lobo
Coyote (child of Indian father and mestiza mother)
By the mid 1800s probably only español, mestizo, and negro were still widely used.

---

[followerofchrist]

"So you support lying on gubmint forms?"

It isn't a lie if you belive it to be true.

Who is the government to determine what your race is? In America you can be any ethnicity (aren't we all Irish on St. Patrick's day?), unless there's casino profits involved. In that case, half of reservation Indians aren't Indians either.