FR Poll Thread: "The Patriot Act Should be..."

Free Republic ^ | 6-13-2005 | DTogo

[DTogo]

As recently suggested, here's a thread to allow FReepers to post (if they want to) how they voted on this poll, why, etc. Let's keep it civil! :)

[Lazamataz]

Because Bush endorses it does not make it right.

He's also for open borders and a total lack of enforcement vis-a-vis illegal immigration, and that is ALSO not right.

And finally if you have nothing to hide then you got nothing to fear!!!

I absolutely despise this line of reasoning.

With it, I can say: "And finally if you have nothing to hide then you got nothing to fear from warrantless searches!!!"

With it, I can say: "And finally if you have nothing to hide then you got nothing to fear from 24/7 automated surveillance!!!"

With it, I can say: "And finally if you have nothing to hide then you got nothing to fear from a total lack of financial privacy!!!"

Your take on it is the antithesis of what this country should -- and used to -- stand for.

[dakine]

"nothing to hide then you got nothing to fear!!!"

Please provide your full name, account number, date of birth, and mother's maiden name...

Just as loony....

[pageonetoo]

And finally if you have nothing to hide then you got nothing to fear!!!

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

habeas corpus (hay-bee-uhs kawr-puhs)

A legal term meaning that an accused person must be presented physically before the court with a statement demonstrating sufficient cause for arrest. Thus, no accuser may imprison someone indefinitely without bringing that person and the charges against him or her into a courtroom. In Latin, habeas corpus literally means “you shall have the body.”

* September, 1999: Denver SWAT team members shoot and kill 45-year-old Ismael Mena, a father of nine, after he attempted to defend himself and his family from the unannounced, masked intruders who broke down his bedroom door as he slept. The SWAT team was carrying out a no-knock raid, but had the wrong address on their search warrant. Mena was shot eight times and died on the spot after he fired one shot from a .22 caliber pistol. No drugs were found at the house. The city of Denver paid $400,000 to settle a lawsuit with the Mena family. The officer in charge of the raid pled guilty this month to a perjury charge pertaining to his affidavit seeking the search warrant. In February, a Denver grand jury cleared that officer and two other police shooters of any other wrongdoing.

* January, 2000: An Arlington, Texas police officer shoots and kills 48-year-old Raymond J. Sanchez during a methamphetamine bust. Police alleged that Sanchez tried to run them over while fleeing after his passenger was arrested. The father of four died in a Kwik Wash parking lot after being shot one time. In May, an Arlington grand jury cleared the police shooter of any wrongdoing.

* March, 2000: A New York City police officer shoots and kills Patrick Dorismond, the fourth unarmed black man killed by the city's police in little more than a year. Undercover police accosted Dorismond, a 24-year-old security guard, as he and a friend hailed a cab. In what police described as a "buy and bust" operation in which they approach strangers on the steet and ask them for drugs, Dorismond angrily rejected the undercover agents' request and the dispute escalated into a scuffle. Dorismond was shot once in the chest and died within minutes. In a sign of intense community anger at Dorismond's and other killings, 23 officers and five civilians were injured in a melee at his funeral. In July, a New York grand jury cleared the police shooter of any wrongdoing.

* June, 2000: A suburban St. Louis detective and a DEA agent, acting as members of a multi-agency drug task force, shoot and kill two 36-year-old black men, Earl Murray and Ronald Beasley, in their vehicle in the parking lot of a busy suburban Jack in the Box restaurant. The police were attempting to arrest Murray for allegedly selling rocks of crack cocaine to undercover officers on two previous occasions. Police said they shot the two after Murray, the driver, attempted to flee. Police said they feared that Murray would run them down. No weapons were found in the vehicle. Beasley, the passenger, was not a target of the bust. Police described his death as "unintended, but not a mistake." In August, a St. Louis County grand jury cleared the police shooters of any wrongdoing.

* October, 2000: Two Lebanon, Tennessee police officers executing a search warrant for the wrong house shoot and kill John Adams, 64, in his living room. According to Adams' wife, Loriane, police repeatedly refused to identify themselves as they banged on the door, then broke the door down, handcuffed her, and shot her husband several times. Police claim he shot at them with a sawed off shotgun. Loraine Adams says this is not so. The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation is investigating.

[68 grunt]

... I just think that W.O.T. is here to stay.

THE DEVIL’S ADVOCATE, Taylor Caldwell, page 32”But long before this final act of murder was done, America was already slave. After the first two deliberate wars of this century, which had not completely ruined the world, a plot was laid for the ultimate tragedy. Communist Russia had been exhausted by the second World War, and upon her all the hopes of despots and tyrants laid. So American Presidents lent her billions of the American peoples’ money, directly and indirectly, fed her, armed her, encouraged her, until she was strong enough to ‘fight,’ and thus create another World War. The tyrants of Russia and America knew what they were doing. So began a calculated era of declared and undeclared wars, of complete confusion, of plotted ruin. In the name of ‘liberty’ and ‘security’ America was deprived of all liberty and security, her best died on a multitude of battlefields. It was no accident that the strongest, the youngest, and the most intelligent, the better-bred, the best-educated, were forced into monster armies. Their murder had been cleverly arranged, so that there would remain in America, only the stupid, the weak, the eager-to-be-slaves, the inferior, the old, the tired, the hopeless, and the debased, who would give no trouble and who had either lost the dream of liberty or had never heard of it.”

[Lazamataz]

I wonder how many selfish people wouldn't mind changing their opinion on having the patriot act implemented if it were to save them on 9/11/01 standing on the top floors of the WTC as the planes hit and they had to decide to jump off the building hitting the pavement at 200 MPH?

I would gladly jump, if it meant my fellow Americans would enjoy liberty, instead of this damnable "Patriot" Act.

In fact, I would only regret that I would have but one life to give for my country.

[Dan from Michigan]

My problems with the Patriot Act are as follows.

1. Sneak and peak without warrant.
2. Judge shopping.
3. Asset forfeiture without conviction(My biggest problem). "Affirmative Defense" needed to get property back. That means guilty till proven innocent.
4. No clear definition on what a 'terrorist' is.
5. Someone like Klinton with these powers.

I notice that President Bush dodges anything to do with that.

And finally if you have nothing to hide then you got nothing to fear!!!

I have a helluva lot to hide from the next Bill Klinton or mid level bureaucratic pukes who would like to make themselves look good bucking for a promotion. Planting evidence for one.

[pageonetoo]

just bendover...

Nothing within the Patriot Act would have stopped the attacks on 9/11... Nothing within the Patriot Act will bring them back... Every liberty taken temporarily, is gone forever!

[dljordan]

"Your take on it is the antithesis of what this country should -- and used to -- stand for."

Amen! Can I get a witness!

[Radioactive]

Nope. Don't exclude anyone.

You could become a terrorist if you want to.

Make everybody be under the patriot act and make it even more harsh.

Put people in prison for anything I say. Put them in for J walking. Terrorism could raise its ugly head with J walking. We could find that terrorists J walk. Or even spit on the sidewalk.

I think we should put people in prison for spitting on the sidewalk. We could catch terrorists because they could spit on the sidewalk.

We should make speeding a terrorist act.

Many terrorists could be speeding and we could catch them if we make it part of the patriot act.

We should not sunset anything. Allow this law to be the law of the land.

Make posting on Free Republic a terrorist act.

I'm sure that there are some people who are terrorists that post here.

Lets make everything a federal crime punnishable by the patriot act.

After all, if even one person could be saved by the patriot act, then it should be law.

{By the way, isn't this what the left says about gun control?}

[B4Ranch]

>>We didn't fly planes into buildings yet we are having our rights taken away.<<

By OUR government, not Osama bin Laden!

[B4Ranch]

More than ever!

[CSM]

What is the difference between no freedom under terrorism or no freedom under tyranny?

[Radioactive]

Common.

How do you give a government that does not shut down its borders the power they are asking for?

Let them do the right thing first by shutting down the borders and then lets talk about giving them more power.

DOn't ever give the government more power than you are willing to give up forever.

[Radioactive]

I just think that W.O.T. is here to stay.

You should have said.....I just think the NWO (New world Order) is here to stay.

[Radioactive]

Amen and amen.

[faq]

Make it permanent. We are in a war that will probably never ever end. I hope we can prevent another mass murder 911 attack. Not arrest suicide bombers after an act is carried out. I disagree with the arguments that this act would be dangerous with another Clinton administration. That sounds like DU conspiracy talk to me. As long as presidents are limited to 4-year terms I don't see presidents as all powerful and above the law.

[dakine]

"I don't see..."

Yep...

[processing please hold]

By OUR government, not Osama bin Laden!

And he must be sitting on his haunches laughing his ass off about what a great thing he caused to happen. America, destroying itself from within.

[april15Bendovr]

There is no better place to ask that question than in Iraq right now.

Lots of insurgents that streamed in to gain control with a radical Islamic agenda after the UN turned its back on a Tyrant dictator.

Maybe if we didn't decide to bring the war to the terrorists who know what more would be happening here at home?

[TomasUSMC]

Iran, Syria and Iraq have historically attacked the US with terrorist acts. Republican AND Democratic State Departments have agreed. The Whole World thought Iraq had WMDs, now they don't because the Republican President did the only thing that would once and for all, answer the WMD question. He went in there and took Saddam out. WMD is not anymore, a question, it is resolved.

Not only are there no WMDs in Iraq, Saddam will never get WMDs in the future.

The CIA warned US of a threat and that threat already had hit US in the 1993 wTC bombing that for the grace of God did not topple the building instantly and kill many more than died on 9/11. So those who would place the CIA under condemnation, bunch our enemies with our friends - well....... I don't confuse those two very different groups.