Posted on 06/13/2005 8:45:15 AM PDT by TheOtherOne
Joking Pilots in Commuter Jet Crash Wanted to 'have a Little Fun' by Climbing to 41,000 Feet
Published: Jun 13, 2005 WASHINGTON (AP) - Two pilots, in a jovial mood as they flew an empty commuter jet, wanted to "have a little fun" by taking the plane to an unusually high altitude last October, only to realize as the engines failed that they were not going to make it, according to transcripts released Monday.
The plane, which the two were ferrying from Little Rock, Ark. to Minneapolis, crashed and both Capt. Jesse Rhodes and First Officer Peter Cesarz perished.
The cockpit voice recording, released by the National Transportation Safety Board at the start of a three-day hearing into the Oct. 14, 2004 accident, revealed how the pilots cracked jokes and decided to "have a little fun" and fly to 41,000 feet - the maximum altitude for their 50-seat plane. Most commuter jets fly at lower altitudes.
"Man, we can do it, 41-it," said Cesarz at 9:48 p.m. A minute later, Rhodes said, "40 thousand, baby."
Two minutes later, "There's 41-0, my man," Cesarz said. "Made it, man."
At 9:52 p.m., one of the pilots popped a can of Pepsi and they joked about drinking beer. A minute later, Cesarz said, "This is the greatest thing, no way."
But at 10:03 p.m., the pilots reported their engine had failed. Five minutes later, they said both engines had failed and they wanted a direct route to any airport.
The transcript recounts their increasingly desperate efforts to restart the engines and regain altitude. They tried to land at the Jefferson City, Mo., airport but by 10:14 p.m., it was obvious they wouldn't reach it.
"We're not going to make it, man. We're not going to make it," Cesarz said. The plane crashed in a residential neighborhood of Jefferson City. No one was injured on the ground.
Accident investigators are examining how well the pilots were trained - a key safety question as the number of regional jets keeps growing.
The crash involved a Bombardier regional jet plane operated by Pinnacle Airlines, an affiliate of Northwest Airlines. Like many regional carriers, Pinnacle is growing rapidly as it teams up with a traditional network airline looking to offer more seats to more places.
Memphis, Tenn.-based Pinnacle grew by 700 percent in the past five years, according to Phil Reed, its marketing vice president. During that time, it switched its fleet from propeller-driven planes to small turbojets, known as regional jets, or RJs.
The number of regional jets rose to 1,630 last year from 570 in 2000, the Federal Aviation Administration says. The question of whether government safety inspectors can keep up with such rapid changes in the airline industry was raised last week in a Transportation Department inspector general's report.
Jet engines work differently at higher altitudes, and it's unclear whether the relatively inexperienced Pinnacle pilots were aware that they had to be more careful in the thin air at 41,000 feet, the maximum altitude for their plane.
According to FAA transcripts of air-to-ground conversations, an air traffic controller in Kansas City told the two pilots it was rare to see the plane flying that high.
"Yeah, we're actually ... we don't have any passengers on board, so we decided to have a little fun and come up here," one of the pilots said. The transcripts don't identify whether Jesse Rhodes or Cesarz made the statement.
First one, then the other engine shut down. The last contact that controllers had with the crew was at 9,000 feet, when the pilot reported an airport beacon in sight.
At the hearing, NTSB investigators plan to delve into the plane's flight limits and the proper recovery techniques when engines fail. They also want to know if the pilots knew those procedures and to learn the engine's performance characteristics at high altitudes.
On June 2, the FAA issued a special bulletin clarifying what steps pilots need to take to restart an engine when there's a dual engine failure, agency spokeswoman Laura Brown said.
David Stempler, president of the Air Travelers Association, said the issue may be reckless pilots rather than inadequate training or improper recovery procedures.
"This is more a story of pilots having time on their hands and playing with things in the cockpit that they shouldn't," he said.
Flying, he said, is as boring as truck driving most of the time.
"This was boredom and experimentation, these guys experimenting with things they had no business doing," Stempler said.
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On the Net:
National Transportation Safety Board: http://www.ntsb.gov
AP-ES-06-13-05 1117EDT
Maybe, but how many military pilots do you personally know who have died doing less intelligent things than flying at service ceiling?
I think military pilots are also a little quick to assume incompetence with civilians. How many hours did you fly per year? Airline pilots train regularly (and in the sim, intensely) plus they fly more than the 200 hours or so a year than the military folks get. I know GA pilots that fly more than some military folks were in the early 90s, and they were buying their own gas.
I'm not arguing that civi training comes close, but I wouldn't assume that a military pilot would not have died in the same situation...or even avoided the situation.
Thank God nobody else was on board.
Spam Cans find the nearest field (literally) and circle to bleed off energy. It seems these guys were trucking cross country, at 41K feet, I'd guess there must have been a runway within range...Even trying a restart.
A hunk of something, I'm sure.
See - fighter pilots are cool - if you want someone who can talk about himself, can show how he flies loops and rolls and how close he can fly in formation with other planes. A fighter pilot is great if you want to hear all about him.
But if you want a man who knows all about the proper application of torque and thrust...someone who is good with his hands, and doesn't just fly with them...who knows that a fight is face-to-face and hand-to-hand and not nine miles out with a sidewinder...if you want someone who can take an engine apart and put it back together - not just break it...you need a jet engine mechanic.
Not that I'm boasting, mind you - I'll leave that to the fighter pilots....
Check my profile page...
I'm clear on the subject.
;-)
If the plane is rated for flying at that altitude, it should fly safely at that altitude. A factor of safety should also be included in that rating. I don't blame the pilots for this tragedy, judging from the info presented in the article.
The most "fate-tempting" thing I've heard on a cockpit voice recording was when a pilot joked with a flight attendant (while still on the ground): "We always ask about the dating habits of our flight attendants so that we get it on the recorder, in case we crash, then the media would have some kind of [inaudible]". Flight attendant: "Oh, is that right? Is that what that is?" Pilot: "We got to leave something for our wives and children to listen to."
A few minutes later the aircraft crashed during take-off. The pilot had forgotten to lower the flaps (perhaps because he was too busy kidding around with the flight attendant?). Delta Air Lines Flight 1141.
Maybe not, but not all of Bombardier's products are to be sniffed at; The DeHavilland Dash 8 Q400 is probably the best turboprop transport plane ever to grace the skies. Then again, I'm a little biased toward the Q-series planes, anyhow. :)
I'm thinking they may have panicked and tried to start them too high and it didn't work. I assume that plane has an APU so running the battery down wouldn't be an issue???
Oh, he is stunning.
I know you're clear - you fly those cute little airplanes...
And you?
The average pilot
despite the somewhat
swaggering exterior,
is very much capable
of such feelings as
love, affection,
intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don’t
involve anyone else.
We lost Cutis Pitts last weekend. Contracted pnuemonia after a heart valve surgery. God Rest His Soul.
Nope, dumb as a post. But damn cute.
To quote Snoop Dog: " He is I and I am him, slim with the tilted brim."
I suppose the question here is, is Fl 41 absolute ceiling or service ceiling?
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