Huge Confederate flag flying high over I-65

decaturdaily. ^ | 13-June-2005

[stainlessbanner]

VERBENA (AP) — A huge Confederate battle flag flying over Interstate 65 north of Montgomery will become a permanent fixture, according to officials with the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

The organization bought land on the side of the interstate near Verbena and put up the flag, which has been flying for several months above the tree lines from the top of a large pole, easily visible from the heavily traveled interstate.

Leonard Wilson, commander of the Alabama division of Sons of Confederate Veterans, said the flag will be dedicated in a ceremony at 5 p.m. on June 26.

The flag is located on a little more than half an acre of land just north of where Autauga County 68 crosses over the interstate, about six miles south of the Verbena exit.

"We put the flag up so people could see it," Wilson said. "We are showing off our heritage. The flag is part of our heritage."

Critics of Confederate flag displays say they are reminders of the slavery era and Alabama's racist past, and can damage Alabama's image when flown beside a busy interstate route to Gulf beaches.

[stand watie]

when you STOP telling LIES about dixie & her decent people, i'll happily stop "bashing" you and every other hate-FILLED, lying,ignorant, damnyankee.

but you just can't stop posting the LIES, can you???

fwiw,it makes you look like a HATEFUL FOOL, if that's important to you.

free dixie,sw

[billnaz]

First, it's "an insult," not "a insult." Even this ignorant Southerner knows that.

As I wrote in an earlier post, many of those who condemn all the things you mentioned don't stop there. They quickly move to bashing EVERYTHING about the South, with the possible exception of our great food, which no one in their right mind can bash.

All the proud Southerners to whom I am related and with whom I am acquainted condemn slavery, the Klan, and everything about the Jim Crow era -- segregation, lynchings, and everything else.

On more than one occasion during my army career I was given evil looks as soon as my Southern drawl was heard. Often the listener immediately assumed an attitude of superiority, even though I had more education than the listener could ever hope to have.

African-Americans can wave the red, black, and green flag, and that's cool. Scottish-Americans can wave the flag of St. Andrew, and that's cool. German-Americans can wear lederhosen, and that's cool. But let one proud Southerner wave the Confederate battle flag or wear a t-shirt with either the Stars and Bars or the Confederate battle flag (there IS a difference) and the Political Correctness Police are mobilized faster than a Yankee army can retreat.

There is a solution. Some good Southern men need to seek out Yankee women and marry them. That's what I did. If enough Southern men step forward and marry Yankee women, in a few generations the Yankees will be bred out of existence and they won't be able to bash Southerners any more. When that happens ask me who won the War!

[Ditto]

First, it's "an insult," not "a insult." Even this ignorant Southerner knows that. As I wrote in an earlier post, many of those who condemn all the things you mentioned don't stop there. They quickly move to bashing EVERYTHING about the South, with the possible exception of our great food, which no one in their right mind can bash.

I see you appear to be new to FreeRepublic, so you can be excused if you are not aware that we already have an over abundance of grammar police, (who I suspect make a habit of picking nits when when they have nothing else to say.)

Secondly, in your 4 days of experience here, can you please point me to some examples of people who "quickly move to bashing EVERYTHING" about the South.

BTW. I hate grits and am not a big chicken fan, southern-fried or otherwise. But my taste in food has absolutely nothing to do with you, your grandparents, your state or your region.

[billnaz]

Yes, I'm new to Free Republic. I've already had one other person pull rank on me. It's sort of like a PFC who gets assigned to the unit one day ahead of all the other PFC's, so he considers himself an old-timer in the unit.

I don't have to give you specific examples of when I've been bashed just because I'm a Southerner. If other Southerners on this thread want to give you some examples of being bashed just because of their accent, they are welcome to do so.

Learning to love grits, black-eyed peas, turnip greens, okra, Southern-fried chicken, and catfish would do wonders for your attitude. Until you reach that plateau there's nothing more I can do for you.

[Ditto]

All the proud Southerners to whom I am related and with whom I am acquainted condemn slavery, the Klan, and everything about the Jim Crow era -- segregation, lynchings, and everything else.

I'm sure they must have been outraged in 1961 when the Democrat Governor of South Carolina hoisted the CBF over the state-house as an act of defiance of Federal efforts to end Jim Crow.

[Ditto]

If other Southerners on this thread want to give you some examples of being bashed just because of their accent, they are welcome to do so.

Bashed? As in beaten? Or were you teased? Like people tease folks with Boston, Brooklyn, Pittsburgh accents?

Maybe you really are thin skinned.

BTW. How could someone on FreeRepublic tease you about your accent? I haven't noticed a distinctive drawl in your typing.

[stand watie]

aren't you smart enough to KNOW that what you posted is an OUTRIGHT LIE, promulgated by KNOWING anti-southern BIGOTS????

i've said before that you're an ignorant fool, blinded by HATE & the outright KNOWING LIES out of the most extreme fringe of LEFTIST academia. your posting of this BILGE proves it.

no less a person than POTUS John F. Kennedy ordered that the CBF be placed over the SC Statehouse in "loving memory of the valiant soldiers of the old Confederacy", on the occasion of the beginning of the Centennial of TWBTS.

UNfortunately for YOU and every other DAMNyankee LIAR, the letter on White House stationary, signed by JFK, is on a wall at the State Relic Room.

free dixie,sw

[Ohioan]

Can you point me to a post where someone asked the South to apologize for anything?

The South as an entity apologize? No, not as I can recall. But posts aspersing the Southern leadership from 1789 to 1865, because many of them held slaves? These threads touching upon any theme of the era are replete with such aspersions.

My rhetoric referred to those aspersions. Let me translate it for you. No Southerner, today, need apologize because his ancestor held slaves, or had friends who held slaves, or risked his life to preserve the independence of his State to decide the questions involved in his time, or any time, for themselves. Nor need any New Englander to apologize if his forebear helped Cotton Mather hang "witches." It is not fit for one generation to smugly judge the accepted morality of an earlier generation. And, very frankly, the public morality of this generation does not compare very favorably at all with the generations that held slaves or hung witches.

What a lot of hubris we see among the South bashers!

I cite the sudden revival of the slavery issue as an example of the lack of rational context in the way some issues are addressed, in an essay that will be formally posted tomorrow, at my web site. (Context--The Essential, Nearly Lost, Attribute Of Reason)

William Flax

[Ohioan]

In any case, my people were all in Indiana and have no responsibility whatsoever for what New Yorkers were up to.

I noticed your comment on the New York riots, and could not resist pointing out the fact that Indiana had the most stringent Black codes of any State. It was a criminal offense in Indiana in the late 1850s and early 1860s to even hire a freed slave.

Now, I am not changing my position from the post of a few minutes ago, in pointing this out. I will also defend my Hoosier neighbors, from anyone who suggests that they should apologize, or pretend that they are morally superior to their forebears. They should not and are not.

It is fundamental to Western Morality that one generation does not have the right to pass moral judgments on the moral values of its ancestry. You can agree or disagree with their thinking. You can give reasons for your own beliefs, whether they are the same or different from those of your ancestors. But their beliefs are entitled to respect.

[Ditto]

The South as an entity apologize? No, not as I can recall. But posts aspersing the Southern leadership from 1789 to 1865, because many of them held slaves? These threads touching upon any theme of the era are replete with such aspersions.

So is it your opinion, when discussing history, we are to skip the "unpleasant" parts for fear our words may be somehow taken as an "aspersion" for some living person?

Or is it that we should not look to the total of past lives taking the "good and the bad" into account in our estimations of the men being studied?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Please explain.

[Ohioan]

So is it your opinion, when discussing history, we are to skip the "unpleasant" parts for fear our words may be somehow taken as an "aspersion" for some living person?

Certainly not. What you need to skip is the half-baked, unfounded, hubristic moral judgments as to the character of the players. One of the principal differences between a true historian and a propagandist, is that the true historian spares the reader the moral judgments. Sanctimony is better left to demagogues and quacks. Those who truly seek the "Light," are quite content to leave "Judgment" to the Lord.

It diminishes the character of George Washington, not in the slightest, that he had slaves. On the other hand, we all owe him our gratitude, for furnishing his own domestic staff from Mount Vernon, and not sticking the public with the bill, when he became President.

It diminishes the character of Robert E. Lee not in the slightest, that even though he personally declined to own slaves, he led the troops that arrested the sociopathic abolitionist, John Brown, who was tried and hung; or that when Virginia was threatened, he resigned his position in the United States Army, to defend his homeland.

William Flax

[mac_truck]

John Brown was tried and hung.. for treason , as a result of his attacking a federal armory at Harpers Ferry. Perhaps if he written a Cause of Secession document first, his life would have been spared. /sarcasm

[muawiyah]

Indiana had so-called "black codes" for the simple reason that they'd formerly had indentured servitude during the Territorial period (and that included the period when Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin were part of the Territory).

Secondly, there were more than enough yahoo Souvrn'rs there to stir up the largely uneducated population of that day to allow a Souvrn'r dominated state legislature to pass such laws ~

Third, the Indiana statues were initially adopted, as a whole, from the Statutes of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, and they, in their turn, had been adopted, as a whole, from the Statutes of the Commonwealth of Virginia.

I have relatives who were prosecuted and convicted for violating the runaway slave acts for having freed slaves and taking them to Canada.

During the Civil War they greatly enjoyed burning Souvrn' cities to the ground, and had they known that in this day and age there were Ohioans who would disparage their efforts, they'd burned Cincinnati and Cleveland if they'd had a chance.

[Ditto]

What you need to skip is the half-baked, unfounded, hubristic moral judgments as to the character of the players.

My original question to you was to show me some examples of that on this forum (goof balls like stand watie excluded) and you said you could not recall any. Now you say the opposite?

If your condemnation is against the popular (leftist) press or Hollywood stereotypes, take it up with them. Nether points of view are represented or respected here.

My only reason to participate in these Civil War threads is to refute the totally distorted history engaged in by seminar posters who have an abundance of "regional pride" and very little actual knowledge of the history they claim to be intimate with via genetic heritage. Add to that trolls representing various radical neo secessionist and white supremest factions who infiltrate this forum from time to time masquerading as "Southern Patriots" and it can sometimes get busy.

I'd add, as a whiskey, I like Bourbon straight, sting and all. And I like my history the same way. There is no need to sugar coat anything for me. The bite of human foibles and flaws makes it all the more interesting and important. It's only about what happened.

[Ditto]

BTW. I also add that IMO, George Washington was the GREATEST American ever. No one else has ever come close.

That he was also a slave owner has no bearing on his greatness, and in fact in a place and time when slavery was a the norm, his growing realization of the fundamental philosophical and moral conflict between human servitude and the cause of human liberty for which he risked everything, is all the more reason to admire him. If only others had been as dedicated to those principles as he, we would likely not even be having this discussion.

Eighty years later, the founders of the Confederacy saw slavery not as a conflict to the principles of liberty, but as the foundation of their philosophy of government and societal structure, and the very cornerstone of their "nation". They said so without embarrassment when they directly refuted the words of the Declaration and called the Founders misguided in proclaiming "all men". They were not shamed by slavery. They celebrated it as a positive good.

[Ditto]

no less a person than POTUS John F. Kennedy ordered that the CBF be placed over the SC Statehouse in "loving memory of the valiant soldiers of the old Confederacy", on the occasion of the beginning of the Centennial of TWBTS.

You are so full of crap it's incredible. Is this some tid-bit that your mythical uncle ed has hidden away in the national archives?

Let's see Kennedys Executive Order to that effect.

Try this. You'll feel better.

[Ditto]

I wonder if the fact that the state of Indiana had more free blacks in 1860 than all but a handful of Confederate States won't make him wonder how they got there and how they lived, if they weren't even allowed to have a job.

Ohioan. A little tip. Check original sources before you trust anything you read from Crown Rights.

-----------------------------------------------------------

1860 State Level Census Data -- Sorted by State/County Name
"M" represents data not available

Find Proportions
Select enumerator(s)

---

Select a denominator

Add New Variables

Resort Data

AscendingDescending

Graph a Variable

At the county level, labels may overlap for more than 50 counties

New Census Year

See County Data

State	AGGR. NO. OF FREE COLORED PERSONS
ALABAMA	2690
ARKANSAS	144
CALIFORNIA	4086
CONNECTICUT	8627
DELAWARE	19829
FLORIDA	932
GEORGIA	3500
ILLINOIS	7628
INDIANA	11428
IOWA	1069
KANSAS	625
KENTUCKY	10684
LOUISIANA	18647
MAINE	1327
MARYLAND	83942
MASSACHUSETTS	9602
MICHIGAN	6799
MINNESOTA	259
MISSISSIPPI	773
MISSOURI	3572
NEBRASKA	67
NEVADA	45
NEW HAMPSHIRE	494
NEW JERSEY	25318
NEW YORK	49005
NORTH CAROLINA	30463
OHIO	36673
OREGON	128
PENNSYLVANIA	56949
RHODE ISLAND	3952
SOUTH CAROLINA	9914
TENNESSEE	7300
TEXAS	355
VERMONT	709
VIRGINIA	58042
WISCONSIN	1171
Select states from the list above, then:	476748

---

Source: Inter-University Consortium for Political and Social Research. Study 00003: Historical Demographic, Economic, and Social Data: U.S., 1790-1970. Ann Arbor: ICPSR. More information is available from ICPSR.

If you find errors or inconsistencies in any data, please use our Email Question Form and indicate which state and county you found suspect and for which year.

[M. Espinola]

"There is a solution. Some good Southern men need to seek out Yankee women and marry them. That's what I did. If enough Southern men step forward and marry Yankee women, in a few generations the Yankees will be bred out of existence and they won't be able to bash Southerners any more. When that happens ask me who won the War!"

Your irrational, nonsensical, harebrained scheme for breeding little neo-confederate robots takes the cake, even for you! LOL! If you actually believe any of that absurd wishful thinking you must be comatose.

In another generation any hardcore raving neo-rebels still attempting to resurrect their failed 'Lost Cause' will only be found in the extreme backwoods of society, if that.

[M. Espinola]

"Learning to love grits, black-eyed peas, turnip greens, okra, Southern-fried chicken, and catfish would do wonders for your attitude."

Is that stuff a required diet for those wishing to remain living in the past?

There's always private accent reduction tutoring as well :)

[television is just wrong]

Well at least it is a flag with American Heritage. Mexican flags around here. I feel it is a little anti-american to be flying foreign flags without any specific international reason, but to each his own.