Posted on 06/03/2005 11:18:37 AM PDT by FormerLib
"Actually, the article disputes that and suggests that the transmissions are primarily the result of unsterile punctures or receptive anal sex, whether homo or heterosexual. I think we have the right to ask if this is true, otherwise much of the prevention effort will be misdirected."
You are entitled to your opinion. I guess I am more conventional, going with the 99% rather than the few who dispute it.
No, even if someone can correctly guess right once in a while, or even fairly often in places where AIDS is common, like San Francisco, you can't possibly make a conclusive diagnosis of AIDS by clinical examination.
That's the whole point of the crituque. Exactly, precisely, the same symptoms can be present in two patients,, indistinguishable from one another except that one is HIV positive and the other is not. The first has AIDS, the other does not. The one that is not HIV positive will be diagnosed with the actual disease present only.
You could avoid posting silly questions like this if you would actually read the reference material at the link.
I said: YOU KNOW that I was only trying to illustrate the ridiculousness of the assertion that HIV is a gay disease.
You wrote: To admit that homosexuals are one of the primary carriers for AIDS does not mean that heterosexuals are immune. You should know that."
I do, and you know I do. I have said, on this thread, in several that homosexuality in the west is primarily spread through homosexuality and iv drug use. I have denied that AIDS in Africa is spread in the same manner. You are again mischaracterizing me by implying, despite glaring, and observable evidence to the contrary, that I deny AIDS is primarily spread by homosexuals in this country.
I also know you know heterosexuals are not immune. To what degree we are at risk is what we disagree on. I am sorry if in some of my initial posts, I thought you denied heterosexuals could obtain the disease.
"You could avoid posting silly questions like this if you would actually read the reference material at the link."
In 6th gradde, my teacher said "Don't be afraid to ask any questions, even if they seem silly. There is no silly question."
Might I point out that using such words as "silly" to describe a question is belittling? Do you honesty think I will go and read the material you suggest after belittling me? If I posted a link here, and said "go to the link, dipwad" would you?
THE GREAT HIV / AIDS HOAX
The multi-billion dollar AIDS/HIV fraud is based on two fabrications: that AIDS is a single disease and that it is caused by the HI virus or the "HIV virus" as some medical/media masterminds call it - perhaps they think the V in HIV stands for volcano.
In Japan "AIDS" is virtually unknown : yet, in random tests, 25% of people were found to be "HIV-positive".
HIV-positive response means nothing of any relevance to health: it can be triggered by vaccination, malnutrition, M.S., measles, influenza,
papilloma virus wart, Epstein Barr virus, leprosy, glandular fever, hepatitis, syphillis ... : over sixty different conditions.
Dr Robert E. Willner, inoculated himself with the blood of Pedro Tocino, a HIV-positive haemophiliac, on live Spanish television: an event which was not picked up the pharma-beholden British or US media.
The great HIV/AIDS lie was created by Robert Gallo who was found guilty of "scientific misconduct". "...instead of trying to prove his insane theories about AIDS to his peers...he went public. Then, with the help of
Margaret Heckler, former head of Health and Human Services, who was under great political pressure to come up with an answer to AIDS, the infamous
world press announcement of the discovery of the so-called AIDS virus came about.
This great fraud is now responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands... It was no accident that Gallo just happened to patent the test for HIV the day after the announcement...Gallo is now a multi-millionaire because of AIDS and his fraudulent AIDS test." Dr.
Willner.
By grouping together 25-plus different diseases and other allied factors -
pneumonia, herpes, candidiasis, salmonella, various cancers, infections, vaccine and antibiotic damage, amyl nitrate damage, malnutrition etc.and,
particularly in Africa, TB, malaria, dysentery leprosy and "slim disease" - and calling the whole thing an "AIDS epidemic", a multi-billion dollar/pound "AIDS research and treatment" racket has been created.
The mythical "HIV-induced AIDS plague" in the Third World generates huge sums of cash from Western relief organisations whilst smokescreening the
vaccine/drug boys, responsible for the carnage.
Every death of someone "HIV-positive" is recorded as an "AIDS death".
Periodically, the BBC/ITV/Press visit
Africa/Yugoslavia/Russia etc to
report on the "HIV/AIDS victims" and how they cannot afford the "life-saving AZT." Glaxo Wellcome's lethal drug, AZT, in combination with the diagnosis of
HIV-positive and the prediction, stated or implied, that - "You will die of AIDS" is one of the great pieces of Medical Black Magic - Voodoo Medicine at its most impressive: people have committed suicide on the
basis of the ludicrous diagnosis.
Pregnant women who are HIV-positive have been told to stop breast-feeding, dosed with AZT, have had abortions or have been sterilised. HIV-positive
babies who become ill -from vaccination or whatever - are automatically diagnosed as "suffering from AIDS".
"Considering that there is little scientific proof of the exact linkage of HIV and AIDS, is it ethical to prescribe AZT, a toxic chain terminator of DNA...to 150,000 Americans - among them pregnant women and newborn babies..? Rep.G Gutknecht US House of Representatives.
New Labour "Health" have now announced that all pregnant women in the UK will be "offered" a HIV test. Those who fall for the scam and who are diagnosed as "HIV positive" will be given the chance to have themselves and their unborn child permanently damaged by AZT etc. Pregnancy, itself, can cause a positive diagnosis.
AZT began as a "cancer drug" but was withdrawn for being too toxic: like being thrown out of the Gestapo for cruelty. Its effects include - cancer, hepatitis, dementia, seizures, anxiety, impotence, leukopaenia, , severe
nausea, ataxia, etc. and the termination of DNA synthesis. i.e. AIDS/death by prescription. AZT eventually kills all those who continue to take it.
"WARNING : Retrovir (AZT)...has been associated with symptomatic myopathy, similar to that produced by Human Immunodeficiency Virus..." Glaxo
Wellcome literature!
None of which stops the medical trade from pushing it on every trusting sap who is not ill to start with but is labelled with the "HIV-positive" nonsense and then destroyed by AZT; with "AIDS" getting the blame - and
more billions pouring in for the drug boys, vivisectors, animal breeders and the rest. The latest stunt is to give a "cocktail" of drugs - including AZT, of course, and at £12,000 per head, per year - to all homosexual men who are "HIV-positive".
A particularly good scam is to haul into court someone "guilty of deliberately infecting the victim with the 'HIV-Virus which causes AIDS' " which then develops into "full-blown AIDS" - no mention of vaccine,
antibiotic damage etc or full-blown AZT. Over 2000 - and rising, of the world's scientists are now disputing the HIV hoax, their efforts being continually suppressed by the AIDS establishment, the pharmaceutical/vivisection syndicate and their political and media lackeys
Ok, I'll bite.
First of all on 'stickin; pins in little dollies.' Would that be vehemently denied? Nope! Why? No need to! Why? Because it doesn't even take place in Africa! What?!?! Well, it is a tradition that ALLEGEDLY (more on that later) stems from the Voudoun religious branches ....namely what is known in the West as Voodoo (voudoun is the non-hollywood term, specifically the hougoun and bokor split), Candomble and Santeria. These are in Haiti, Brazil and Cuba respectively. While they are based on certain old-time African practices they are far from African (infact they have more to do with renegade Catholicism than anything else, where Catholic saints are given different names and worshiped as gods demons and protectors). Going back to the 'dollies with pins' ....that stemmed from 1950s HollyWeird, along the same time that peopel started talk on 'zombies' (i think a decade and a half before George Romero ever got behind a camera) ...and anyways HollyWeird Zombies are totally different from Voudoun Zombies (Voudoun zombies are in a nutshell people poisoned with puffer fish venom, making them appear dead, and when they come to and shuffle due to mental injury people think they are zombies). Anyways, Real Voudoun doesn't have 'dollies' with pins ....you can only find those in tourist shops in New Orleans, and they are probably made in China for a red cent and then sold for 15 bucks to some pimply-faced highschool kid with some angst towards the pretty girl in the rich clique.
Anyways, one wouldn't have to deny something that takes place half a world away ....particularly when it doesn't even exist there in the first place.
Now, to what you call 'Animalism.' For one I think you meant Animism ....with may seem like semantics but there is a major difference between the two words. Would they deny Animism? Nope. Why? Because there is no reason to. How come? Because those that still practice it have no reason to deny it.
And maybe you do not know what Animism is (you spelt it wrong, hence there is a chance you may actually think it has something to do with animals). Here is the best description I could find for you: Animism is the belief that personalized supernatural beings (or souls) inhabit all objects and govern their existence. Animism (from animus, or anima, mind or soul), originally means the doctrine of spiritual beings, including human souls. It is often extended to include the belief that personalized, supernatural beings (or souls) endowed with reason, intelligence and volition inhabit ordinary objects as well as animate beings, and govern their existence (pantheism or animatism). This can be stated simply as "everything is alive" 'everything is conscious" or "everything has a soul".
As a matter of fact faiths like Daoism and Buddhism have strong animism traits, as do certain threads of Philosophy (the most prominent being the ones from Plato, Schelling and Aristotle), and of course several African traditional belief systems. Anyways, the few people I've met who actually do follow animism would never deny it. I actually wish more of us Christians had the same fervor (to be honest).
By the way, were you trying to make a quip?
Sorry for the "silly". You are right that there are no "silly" questions.
But, if you would read the article at the link I posted to you, the questions you are likely to ask would engage me far more, and might lead to an enlightening dialog.
No probs. I'm personally trying to extract myself from this thread ....should never have bothered posting (too visceral with no chance of anyones opinion changing one way or the other, and it is simply flame bait and non-productive). Anyways take care and God bless.
In a previous thread I asked you the question of how you account for the high percentage of hemophiliacs who died of AIDS before the blood supply was tested for HIV. Predictably, you were unable to answer this.
I don't remember the question but the answer is laughably easy; because they had received blood from high-risk groups, most likely from IV drug users or homosexuals.
Predict this: so what?
Keep reading and you'll see that many here on Free Republic suffer from the very same mental limitations.
"In a previous thread I asked you the question of how you account for the high percentage of hemophiliacs who died of AIDS before the blood supply was tested for HIV. Predictably, you were unable to answer this."
The interesting thing is that in the post 'AIDS' era (after 1983) the mortality rate among hemophiliacs dropped a massive 71%.
This is inspite of 90% of hemophiliacs being said to be 'HIV positive'.
The truth is that the disease causes false WB, Elisa and P24 test results.
"She walked in, looked at him and said "You have AIDS." He did."
How could anyone possibly know. THERE IS NO TEST FOR 'AIDS'.
Unreliable Tests
A September 2004, San Francisco Chronicle article considered the "beauty" of testing. It told the story of 59 year-old veteran Jim Malone, who'd been told in 1996 that he was HIV positive. His health was diagnosed as "very poor." He was classified as "permanently disabled and unable to work or participate in any stressful situation whatsoever."
In 2004, his doctor sent him a note to tell him he was actually negative. He had tested positive at one hospital, and negative at another.
Nobody asked why the second test was more accurate than the first (this was the protocol at the Veteran's Hospital). Having been falsely diagnosed and spending nearly a decade waiting, expecting to die, Malone said, "I would tell people to get not just one HIV test, but multiple tests. I would say test, test and retest."
In the article, AIDS experts assured the public that the story was "extraordinarily rare." But the medical literature differs significantly.
The Numbers
In 1985, at the beginning of HIV testing, it was known that "68% to 89% of all repeatedly reactive ELISA (HIV antibody) tests [were] likely to represent false positive results." (New England Journal of Medicine. 1985).
In 1992, the Lancet reported ("HIV Screening in Russia") that for 66 true positives, there were 30,000 false positives. And in pregnant women, "there were 8,000 false positives for 6 confirmations."
In September 2000, the Archives of Family Medicine stated that the more women we test, the greater "the proportion of false-positive and ambiguous (indeterminate) test results."
The tests described above are standard HIV tests, the kind promoted in the ads. Their technical name is ELISA or EIA (Enzyme-linked Immuno-sorbant Assay). They are antibody tests. The tests contain proteins that react with antibodies in your blood.
False Positives
In the U.S., you're tested with an ELISA first. If your blood reacts, you'll be tested again, with another ELISA. Why is the second more accurate than the first? That's just the protocol. If you have a reaction on the second ELISA, you'll be confirmed with a third antibody test, called the Western Blot. But that's here in America. In some countries, one
ELISA is all you get.
It is precisely because HIV tests are antibody tests that they produce so many false-positive results. All antibodies tend to cross-react. We produce anti-bodies all the time, in response to stress, malnutrition, illness, drug use, vaccination, foods we eat, a cut, a cold, even pregnancy. These antibodies are known to make HIV tests come up as positive.
The medical literature lists dozens of reasons for positive HIV test results: "transfusions, transplantation, or pregnancy, autoimmune disorders, malignancies, alcoholic liver disease, or for reasons that are unclear..." (Archives of Family Medicine. Sept/Oct. 2000).
"[L]iver diseases, parenteral substance abuse, hemodialysis, or vaccinations for hepatitis B, rabies, or influenza..." (Archives of Internal Medicine, August 2000).
The same is true for the confirmatory test the Western Blot. Causes of indeterminate Western Blots include: "lymphoma, multiple sclerosis, injection drug use, liver disease, or autoimmune disorders. Also, there appear to be healthy individuals with antibodies that cross-react...."
(ibid).
Pregnancy is consistently listed as a cause of positive test results, even by the test manufacturers." [False positives can be caused by] prior pregnancy, blood transfusions...and other potential nonspecific reactions." (Vironostika HIV Test, 2003).
Inflated Africa Numbers
This is significant in Africa, because HIV estimates for African nations are drawn almost exclusively from testing done on groups of pregnant women.
In Zimbabwe last year, the rate of HIV infection among young women decreased remarkably, from 32.5 to 6 percent. A drop of 81 percent overnight. UNICEF's Swaziland representative, Dr. Alan Brody, told the press that, "The problem is that all the sero-surveillance data came from pregnant women, and estimates for other demographics was based on that."
(PLUS News, August, 2004).
Flawed Samples
When these pregnant young women are tested, they're often tested for other illnesses, like syphilis, at the same time. There's no concern for cross-reactivity or false-positives in this group, and no repeat testing. One ELISA on one girl, and 32.5 percent of the population is suddenly HIV positive.
The June 20, 2004 Boston Globe reported "the current estimate of 40 million people living with the AIDS virus worldwide is inflated by 25 percent to 50 percent." It said that HIV estimates for entire countries have, for over a decade, been taken from "blood samples from pregnant women at prenatal clinics."
But numbers about "AIDS deaths, AIDS orphans, numbers of people needing antiretroviral treatment, and the average life expectancy" are all taken from that one test.
I've certainly never seen this in a VH1 ad.
At present there are about six-dozen reasons given in the literature why the tests come up positive. In fact, the medical literature states that there is simply no way of knowing if any HIV test is truly positive or negative:
"[F]alse-positive reactions have been observed with every single HIV-1 protein, recombinant or authentic." (Clinical Chemistry. 37; 1991). "Thus, it may be impossible to relate an antibody response specifically to HIV-1 infection." (Medicine International. 1988).
Ambiguous Results
And even if you believe the reaction is not a false positive, "the test does not indicate whether the person currently harbors the virus."
(Science. November, 1999).
The test manufacturers state that after the antibody reaction occurs, the tests have to be "interpreted." There is no strict or clear
definition of HIV positive or negative. There's just the antibody reaction. The reaction is colored by an enzyme, and read by a machine called a spectro-photometer.
The machine grades the reactions according to their strength (but not specificity), above and below a cut-off. If you test above the cut-off, you're positive; if you test below it, you're negative. So what determines the all-important cut-off? From The CDC's instructional material: "Establishing the cutoff value to define a positive test result from a negative one is somewhat arbitrary." (CDC, 2003)
Evidently you believe that HIV causes AIDS. I mistakenly recalled you as being among the Duesberg followers I encountered on a previous thread.
Predict this: so what?
In 1997 there was a highly publicized case in which a large number of women in western New York State were found to be HIV positive. These infections were all traced to a single man from New York City named Nushawn Williams who was HIV positive and had sex with all these women.
Since you believe that HIV causes AIDS, then evidently heterosexual transmission of AIDS occurred in this case. Based on the article, I'm guessing that you believe that the transmission of HIV to the majority of these women occurred during anal intercourse.
Unverifiable denials are worthless evidence.
Yep, and it is not meant to void your points. After all how does one void what doesn't exist? Would be tantamount to a Scotsman trying to void someone's assertion on the Loch Ness monster or (better yet) the Linton Worm. Injudicious, ludicrous, and a waste of energies.
And no, it wasn't a rant. I was actually quite amused at your ....knowledge. And it made for funny conversation when I went out last night.
Have a blessed and inspired weekend.
You keep repeating your outrage. Try to add to the discussion.
Whoa! A little slack please ... I told yuh it was interesting. ;o)
Being that the transmission most oftenly occurs as a result of receptive anal sex or non-sterile punctures and given no other information about the relations they may or may not have had with this man, that is a possibility.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.