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Dinosaur bones show T. rex link to birds
Reuters ^ | 2005-06-02 | Maggie Fox

Posted on 06/02/2005 2:06:01 PM PDT by dread78645

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A Tyrannosaurus rex dinosaur that died 68 million years ago has provided some of the strongest evidence yet that birds are the closest-living relatives of dinosaurs, scientists said on Thursday.

Soft tissue found in the animal's thighbone strongly suggests it was a female, and just about to lay eggs, the researchers report.

The bone tissue is strongly similar to that made inside the bones of female birds -- and no other living type of animal -- when they are producing the hard shells of eggs just before they lay them, said Mary Higby Schweitzer of North Carolina State University in Raleigh.

"In addition to demonstrating gender, it also links the reproductive physiology of dinosaurs to birds very closely. It indicates that dinosaurs produced and shelled their eggs much more like modern birds than like modern crocodiles," Schweitzer told reporters in a telephone briefing.

Female birds produce a layer of bone tissue called medullary bone when they are laying eggs. It is rich in calcium, providing minerals that would otherwise be leached from harder bone material, leaving the bird susceptible to fractures.

"The way that crocodiles lay and shell their eggs is they hold them in their reproductive tract and shell them all at once," Schweitzer said.

"Birds shell their eggs one at a time as they move down through the reproductive tract. It is a pretty calcium-intensive process."

ALREADY A STAR

This particular T. rex fossil made headlines in March when the same team of paleontologists reported it contained preserved soft tissue -- the first ever found in a dinosaur bone.

"The reason that we have found all the things in this one particular animal is this specimen was in a very remote part of Montana, in the Hell Creek formation," said Jack Horner of the Museum of the Rockies and Montana State University.

"It was so far out in the country that we needed to helicopter it out and we actually had to split the thighbone into two pieces to get it into the helicopter."

When Schweitzer unwrapped the cracked-open femur she immediately saw the soft tissue and went to work proving its remarkable state of preservation.

Horner plans to crack open some other bones.

"We have 12 specimens of Tyrannosaurus rex here at this institution, and we are about to find out if any more of them are females, just by looking inside," he said.

It was a stroke of luck to find an animal at just the right stage to be making medullary bone, Schweitzer said.

"It would not be present in a brooding animal," she said.

"But it would be present as long as there was an egg left to lay. The animal was probably near the end of its laying cycle."

Finding another such specimen will be difficult.

"I think it is pretty much a long shot," she said.

In April, Tamaki Sato of the Canadian Museum of Nature in Ottawa, and colleagues reported they had found the fossil of a dinosaur in China that carried two eggs in its body.

Its physiology also was closer to modern birds than to modern crocodiles, Sato reported.

Horner said most experts are convinced the two-legged dinosaurs known as theropods were closely related to living birds.

"This is another piece to the puzzle and there are a lot of them," he said. "Anyone who would argue that birds and dinosaurs are not related -- frankly I'd put them in the Flat Earth Society group."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: crevolist; dinosaur; evolution; id
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To: wallcrawlr
Not sure there isnt. They do have a water God. Reading about him leads you to different kinds of stories about floods. Beyond that though there are other cultures that record it.

That's kind of a dodge. Something as massive and world-shattering as a global flood is not likely to be told of in metaphor.

141 posted on 06/03/2005 2:19:20 PM PDT by Modernman ("Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." -Bismarck)
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To: Modernman
Its ok to call it a dodge if you want. But there is more than metaphor out there.
I'm not sure I could trust the MSM to report it accurately no matter when it occured.
142 posted on 06/03/2005 2:28:15 PM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: Modernman

well, actually, the Genesis Flood wouldn't be in the Egyptian records at all... there'd be records right up to that date, and then a hieroglyph meaning "a sodden gurgle", and then nothing. ever. after.

as this is contrary to fact...


143 posted on 06/03/2005 2:31:50 PM PDT by King Prout (RG'OIHGV 08 YAEGRKoirliha35u9p089 y5gep'iojq5g353hat5eohiahetb98 ye5po)
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To: Stark_GOP
Nice dodge. Most cultures have a global flood account that is approx. 80% similar.

Most cultures speak about a big boat filled with animals? I doubt it. To pick a big one, Classical Greek and Roman mythology doesn't mention a world flood. The Norse and their relatives don't have any such story, either.

Concerning Egyptian records, how many kings and cities have been swept away by the desert sands?

We have pretty good written records from the Egyptians going back well past when the flood supposedly happened. There is no break in the Egyptian chronology.

Your asking me to disprove a negative. (i.e. Why is something not there?) I'm not taking the bait.

I can get the same result by asking you to explain why those records still exist. Egyptian writings go back to about 4500 BC. Papyrus was invented around 3000 BC. Papyrus doesn't respond well to water, and yet we have many, many Papyrus writings from before the date that the flood was supposed to have happened. Can you explain their survival?

Most likely, the Biblical flood story comes from around 2200 BC, when Sumerian priests invented mythic science fiction, and wrote a story about the flooding of the earth involving many gods and a pious king Ziusdra. Around 1800 BC, the Bablyonians adapt and expand the flood story in their Epic of Gilgamesh involving the pious king Atrahasis. Around 500 BCE, Hebrew priests in Babylonia take the regionally popular flood story, reduce the gods to one, and demote the king to a commoner named Noah.

144 posted on 06/03/2005 2:32:09 PM PDT by Modernman ("Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." -Bismarck)
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To: King Prout
well, actually, the Genesis Flood wouldn't be in the Egyptian records at all... there'd be records right up to that date, and then a hieroglyph meaning "a sodden gurgle", and then nothing. ever. after.

There shouldn't be any records from before the flood, anyway. At least, not ones on papyrus (40 days of submersion in water is not good for Papyrus). And yet, there are.

145 posted on 06/03/2005 2:33:56 PM PDT by Modernman ("Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." -Bismarck)
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To: Modernman

IIRC, it would have been more than 40 days of immersion. the rains supposedly lasted for forty days, but the drowning of the world supposedly dragged on for months and months... dang, where is my KJV?

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrowf.

anyway, your point is well made. whether the True Believers take it is another matter.


146 posted on 06/03/2005 2:36:52 PM PDT by King Prout (RG'OIHGV 08 YAEGRKoirliha35u9p089 y5gep'iojq5g353hat5eohiahetb98 ye5po)
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To: Modernman; King Prout
Most likely, the Biblical flood story comes from around 2200 BC, when Sumerian priests invented mythic science fiction, and wrote a story about the flooding of the earth involving many gods and a pious king Ziusdra. Around 1800 BC, the Bablyonians adapt and expand the flood story in their Epic of Gilgamesh involving the pious king Atrahasis. Around 500 BCE, Hebrew priests in Babylonia take the regionally popular flood story, reduce the gods to one, and demote the king to a commoner named Noah.

Nice conclusion. I dont believe it but at least you posted what you believe. I appreciate the discussion.

147 posted on 06/03/2005 2:57:22 PM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: dread78645

The recovery of "soft" tissue after millions and millions of years favors the Creationist argument more than anything else...This guy quoted belongs in the "Flat Earth Society"...


148 posted on 06/03/2005 3:03:00 PM PDT by NATIVEDAUGHTER
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To: King Prout
Hey, wow... Inherit The Wind dinner theatre... How goes it, KP?
149 posted on 06/03/2005 3:05:00 PM PDT by Dawsonville_Doc
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To: Modernman
We have pretty good written records from the Egyptians going back well past when the flood supposedly happened. There is no break in the Egyptian chronology.

Creationists will of course try to claim the chronology is wrong. It can't be wrong enough. Predynastic culture blends rather smoothly with Old Kingdom culture in ways that disallow any total replacement of one people by a completely different one for the last six or so thousand years.

150 posted on 06/03/2005 3:08:46 PM PDT by VadeRetro ( Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: NATIVEDAUGHTER
The recovery of "soft" tissue after millions and millions of years favors the Creationist argument more than anything else.

1) Why? Are you aware that the tissue wasn't really "soft" when it was initially found?

2) What "Creationist" argument does it favor?
151 posted on 06/03/2005 4:06:26 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Dawsonville_Doc

I don't get the reference, but howdy back atcha.

things here are pretty good. In a week I get to go attend the wedding of a woman I love very much... and I am not the groom :(

but she did ask me to come up, and it'll be nice to see her.

how's life in Kalifornistan?


152 posted on 06/03/2005 4:28:11 PM PDT by King Prout (RG'OIHGV 08 YAEGRKoirliha35u9p089 y5gep'iojq5g353hat5eohiahetb98 ye5po)
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To: wallcrawlr; Modernman
Most likely, the Biblical flood story comes from around 2200 BC, when Sumerian priests invented mythic science fiction, and wrote a story about the flooding of the earth involving many gods and a pious king Ziusdra. Around 1800 BC, the Bablyonians adapt and expand the flood story in their Epic of Gilgamesh involving the pious king Atrahasis. Around 500 BCE, Hebrew priests in Babylonia take the regionally popular flood story, reduce the gods to one, and demote the king to a commoner named Noah.

Nice conclusion. I dont believe it but at least you posted what you believe. I appreciate the discussion.

don't assign that explanation to me - I, for one, favor the idea that the biblical flood story (and the Gilgamesh story, as well as a lot of other ones) is the garbled hand-me-down of oral traditions concerning the great flood following the collapse of the great-lakes ice-wall at the end of the last glaciation.

153 posted on 06/03/2005 4:31:21 PM PDT by King Prout (RG'OIHGV 08 YAEGRKoirliha35u9p089 y5gep'iojq5g353hat5eohiahetb98 ye5po)
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To: King Prout
don't assign that explanation to me

I didnt. Obviously I quoted mod. Because you were posting on the same thing I was...out of courtesy I included you so as not to ignore you.

154 posted on 06/03/2005 4:44:17 PM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: wallcrawlr

just making things absolutely clear - a LOT of false attribution goes on in CREVO threads.


155 posted on 06/03/2005 4:45:56 PM PDT by King Prout (RG'OIHGV 08 YAEGRKoirliha35u9p089 y5gep'iojq5g353hat5eohiahetb98 ye5po)
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To: King Prout
I ask myself, "Why the hate?" but as I stick around with these threads I see there is a lot of bitterness.

I understand your need for clarity. Later...

156 posted on 06/03/2005 5:04:08 PM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: Modernman
To pick a big one, Classical Greek and Roman mythology doesn't mention a world flood. The Norse and their relatives don't have any such story, either.

Probably because these are Indo-European myths rather than Semitic ones.

157 posted on 06/03/2005 8:34:10 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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Another2x4 place mark


158 posted on 06/03/2005 9:42:52 PM PDT by dread78645 (Sorry Mr. Franklin, We couldn't keep it.)
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To: King Prout
2. does this mean that t.rex tastes like chicken?

Or does chicken taste like t.rex.

159 posted on 06/03/2005 9:49:02 PM PDT by Dustbunny (The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist)
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To: Onelifetogive
Leftists always claim to support tolerance and diversity, but always end up insulting and name-calling anyone who disagrees with them.....

PSSST!

You're talking with one of these...

160 posted on 06/04/2005 9:26:04 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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