Ark of the Covenant's discovery imminent?

WorldNetDaily ^ | 5/28/05 | Dr. Kelly Hollowell

[wagglebee]

So you are denying the existence of the Trinity?

If you are a Jew (and I presume you are) this is perfectly understandable. However, if you are a Christian, this belief is heretical within every denomination I am aware of.

[safisoft]

So you are denying the existence of the Trinity?

Please define 'trinity' using Scripture. Don't give me concepts, or papal dogma. Just Scripture. Even English will do.

When you are done, do the same for 'heresy'.

Lastly, define 'Chrisitan denomination' using the same criteria.

BTW, I am not Jewish - however I do not take to traditions that are not supported by Scripture, or at least support a biblical faith.

[wagglebee]

So what are you?

Trinity: The Godhead is unified in Three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Heresy: The act whereby a person who purports to subscribe to a doctrine of belief disavows some teachings or dogmas thereof.

Christian Denomination: An organized body united by a explicit set of dogmas and beliefs.

[dglang]

Mary was greatly blessed in being chosen to be the earthly mother of Jesus. Being blessed however, doesn't mean that she forever remained a virgin, or that she herself was born of a virgin.

The bible itself declares that she was greatly blessed in being chosen for that role. The bible never declares that she was forever sinless or faultless either before or after bearing and raising Jesus.

A little time our here, Jesus' actual name is Jeshua which is formed of the same root word/s as Joshua which stands for 'Salvation'. (returning to previous topic).

Even the apostles themselves stated that they shouldn't consider themselves as being more special than anyone else because of the special relationship that they had with Jesus as his desciples or because of the spiritual gifts that they may have been given.

The bible declares that the Holy Spirit himself gives the gifts to all believers as HE wills. It is not the believers right ro privilige to say that they will or will not have a particular gift or office assigned to them.

All believers are free to accept the giftings or 'offices' or 'callings' offered to them by the Spirit. To accept and receive the Spirits giftings or blessings results in the greatest benefit to the believer while rejecting the Spirit always results in loss.

Mary's office' or 'role' or 'gifting' was beyond her own ability to cause to happen. She could have turned down the opportunity and someone else would have been chiosen and blessed instead of her. If the Spirit did not chose her for that blessing, she would have been powerless to make it happen.

She was a glad and willing participant in obedience to her understanding of the prophets who declaired that the Messiah was to be born of a virgin. She also had the ancestry that would have uniquely qualified her for her 'office'.

Jesus is said by the bible to be 'the lamb that was slain from the foundation of teh world'. Mary I am sure was also chosen by God ahead fo time to fulfill the role that she was uniquely qualified for by her lineage. If Mary would have rejected her 'calling' God wouldhave found another who met all His stated requirements.

She knew the potential for shame and rejection for being pregnant before getting married and yet she faced the possibility of rejection to be obedient to the news the angel brought her.

Being chosed to be the earthly mother of the Messiah was greatly desired by the women of Israel who knew the prophecies. It was a great honor and anyone chosen to be that vessel would be greatly honored and blessed, above all other women who desired that blessing.

[safisoft]

Trinity: The Godhead is unified in Three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I can read of 'the Father', I can read of 'the Son' and I can read of the 'Holy Spirit' - where am I supposed to read 'unified in three persons'? My point is, the dogma ads to what Scripture says, and by doing so violates the very principle of Deut 6:4, which is what Yeshua ['Jesus'] quotes when He declares the Greatest Commandment in Matt 22. Here it is, sing it loud because this one ain't dogma, it is pure Scripture: G-d is ONE. (Deut 6:4; James 2:19)

Heresy: The act whereby a person who purports to subscribe to a doctrine of belief disavows some teachings or dogmas thereof.

Sheesh, that makes any disavowing of any particular dogma a heresy. Who gets to decide, 'which ones' (ooh, I know... I will, I will...). There are clear reasons for 'cutting off from the camp' - this ain't one of them - but worshipping idols is.

Christian Denomination: An organized body united by a explicit set of dogmas and beliefs.

I am not a part of any organized body as you describe. Since you did not qualify anything about practice, I will assume the most important, and key operator is - which always is a code word for MAN MADE.

What am I? Most humbly, I am not of any faction (1Cor 1). I am a Torah-submissive believer in Yeshua that has studied Scripture for 25 years and come to realize that there have been a lot of men saying a lot of things for the past 2,000 years, that aren't in Scripture. I attend a local congregation that explicitly does NOT call itself 'Christian' since the word has been so trampled in the mud. I worship the G-d of Abraham, the G-d of Isaac, and the G-d of Jacob. I know that Yeshua is Immanu El [G-d with us], and that He died a sacrificial death on the mountains of Moriyah. I know that He was raised on the third day, and sits now at the right hand of the Majesty on High, blessed be His Name. I know that He will fulfill His promises to the physical and spiritual descendents of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob - and return to set up His Kingdom in Jerusalem, reigning from His father David's throne. I know that there is a final resurrection. I know that there is a reward for the righteous, and judgment for the wicked.

I know that faith is an action, not a set of thoughts put down on paper for all to 'agree to' in order to 'get it'. I know the as good as some creeds are, voicing approval of them is no more a guarantee of inputed righteousness than saying you are purple makes you so. For the sake of the analogy, 'purple is as purple does'.

But someone will say that you have faith and I have actions. Show me this faith of yours without the actions, and I will show you my faith by my actions! You believe that 'G-d is one' [or in your case maybe not?] ? Good for you? The demons believe it too - the thought makes them shudder with fear! But, foolish fellow, do you want to be shown that such "faith" apart from actions is barren? Ya'akov 2:18-19 [James 2:18-19]

[wagglebee]

Being blessed however, doesn't mean that she forever remained a virgin, or that she herself was born of a virgin.

Nobody has EVER suggested that Mary was born of a virgin, this alone is indicative of your erroneous thinking based on bigoted misconceptions. Everything else you say is further evidence of your slanted and flawed views of Christian tradition. Anti-Marian beliefs arose in the mid-19th century when anti-Catholics sensed that Catholicism (especially in America) was gaining acceptance, they have nothing to do with the Reformation. Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and Wesley all shared Marian beliefs that are consistent with Catholicism's, they hated the Pope and the Catholic Church, but the adored Mary.

[wagglebee]

Based upon your explanation, I completely respect your beliefs, they are obviously a source of spiritual strength for you. I hope that you will respect mine even if you disagree with them.
G-d Bless

[Prod Convert]

Don't waste your time, and chance defilement, on someone who relies on the Talmud for his opinions on the Saviour and the Blessed Virgin, and heavily distorts FR as "PapistOnLine". Some kind of conceited entity, a fit object for the St. Michael the Archangel prayer --- maybe Vendy Jones, the arch-apostate, himself. Our faith is built on a Rock, we shall not fear...... and we are glad to introduce Our Lady online.

[wagglebee]

Amen.

[Arthalion]

Well, it's extremely unlikely that the ark was still in the temple when itwas looted. Jerusalem lay under seige for two years before it fell, and II Kings tells us that the situation in the city grew desperate as starvation set in.

The leadership within the temple undoubtably knew that the city was going to fall months before it actually did and hid it elsewhere within the city or in the tunnels under the temple. No reasonable leader would have left a religions most valuable artifact sitting vulnerable when invaders stood ready to overrun the city and possibly kill all its inhabitants. This leaves us with three real possibilities.

1. The Ark and the temple treasures are still buried somewhere under Jerusalem.

2. The treasures really were recovered by the Templars and are now somewhere in Europe. While this is possible because we DO have historical confirmation of their digging in the area at the time, their findings are likely more legend than reality (they are credited with finding everything from the Ark to the Holy Grail, Jesus' cross, the Shroud of Turin, and the spear that pierced Jesus' side). If they did find anything, the odds are that it's either lost to history or is sitting in the Vatican.

3. As tragic as the thought might be, it's also completely possible that at some point in the intervening millenia, the Ark may have been claimed by regular looters. It could have been found by the Romans when they built their own temple on the site. It could have been found by the Muslims and destroyed. It could have been found by a couple of 10 year old kids who stumbled across it in a tunnel a thousand years ago and turned it over to some forgotten Muslim leader. There's no way to know, but the odds of it being found and destroyed are at least equal to the odds of it surviving.

As much as I hate to admit it, I think that it's either #2 or #3, and that we'll never know which.

[safisoft]

on someone who relies on the Talmud for his opinions on the Saviour

Where did you get that idea? The Talmud is a research book is all. Don't tell me you are a book burner? You don't even know what the Talmud is. You would be shocked I suppose to know the the first printed Talmud was by order of your precious pope.

[Antoninus]

Sometimes it is very tiring that FreeRepublic reads a lot like PapistOnline sometimes.

Papist online? Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize we weren't allowed to express our point of view on these subjects on FR. Does it say that in the posting guidelines anywhere? No "Papist" posts?

There's a reason that anti-Catholic bigots were called "know-nothings."

[Coleus]

Sometimes it is very tiring that FreeRepublic reads a lot like PapistOnline sometimes. >>

so, go somewhere else and bring your hate with you.

[AlguyA]

"His shed blood is the ratification of the new covenant for all that believe."

Actually, you're not being picky here at all. This is sort of what I was getting at. What you call 'ratification,' is sort of what I meant using the terms,'signify,' and 'signification.' His Blood is the signification of the New COvenant, the ratification, if you will, of the New Coivenant in the same way the stone tablets were the signification or ratification of the Old Covenant. And His Body is what was offered up in sacrifice which makes the New Covenant of effect.

Now, since it seems we're getting close here, you may want to take a look at St. Bonaventure's speculation that the 'Ark of the Covenant' refered to in Revelations is Jesus, Himself -particularly in light of your excellent Scripture regarding the New Covenant as being 'God's law written on our hearts.' One of the points he makes regards the fact that God's Law was most perfectly written on Jesus' heart since Jesus was the Son of God and it was through His sacrifice that the New Covenant would have effect. Thus, look at what we have here. In the old 'Ark of the Covenant' resided Aaron's rod, the signification of the high priest, the stone tablets, the signification of God's Law and manna, the signification of God's gift of bread to the ancient Israelites. From a Catholic perspective, all of these things signify Jesus in the New Covenant. He is our High Priest, it was upon His Heart that God's law was most perfectly written and from the Holy Spirit which He sent us that God's law may be written on our own hearts, and it is His Body which comes to us as the gift which gives life in the Eucharist.

Of course, also from the Catholic perspective, it is perfectly reasonable to consider Mary the Ark since all these aspects of Our Lord -being a part of Our Lord's One Person- were all once carried by Mary.

[hripka]

This guy claims he found it already

http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/ark.htm

[SunkenCiv]

[SunkenCiv]

Keepers of the Lost Ark?[Ethiopia][Ark of the Covenant]
Smithsonian Magazine | December 2007 | Paul Raffaele
Posted on 11/27/2007 2:27:12 PM EST by BGHater
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1931280/posts

[SunkenCiv]

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