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No reasoning with the elderly on issue of Social Security
Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 5/24/05 | Ruben Navarrette

Posted on 05/25/2005 8:42:08 AM PDT by qam1

The debate over whether to reform Social Security is full of idiosyncrasies.

Here's a big one: No matter what fix we're talking about - partial privatization, raising the retirement age, means testing so millionaires forfeit benefits, tying benefits to inflation rather than wages, etc. - the most ferocious opposition comes from the demographic that won't be affected either way by any proposal being discussed at either end of Pennsylvania Avenue: Americans already 55 and over.

If you can imagine that, you're already two steps ahead of the Bush administration. White House officials seem baffled that their biggest fight has turned out to be with a group with whom the administration went out of the way to avoid picking a fight. The polls on this issue back that up. Most show the same trend: The older the polling sample, the less support you find for tinkering with Social Security. The younger the sample, the greater the support.

The more the administration tries to reassure seniors that they'll squeak by before any rule change takes effect, and so this debate doesn't concern them, the more concerned seniors get. Here's what the White House missed: This isn't just about self-interest. It's also about sentimentality. No other generation is as passionate - and therefore as protective - about Social Security as the World War II generation, those Americans now in their 70s and 80s. For that demographic, this debate is about preserving a program that served their generation well and which they hope will be around several decades from now to serve their grandchildren.

That's interesting. If they really wanted to protect their grandchildren, they'd do everything they could to ensure some generational fair play. Unless something is done, the current system will - 10 or 20 years from now - soak taxpayers with tax rates that experts say could easily top 50 percent when you combine income taxes with the payroll taxes necessary to fund Social Security and Medicare.

But there's no reasoning with the elderly on this issue. I know. I tried.

Recently, I agreed to sit on a panel here in Coronado and discuss Social Security reform. Home to a lot of retired naval officers, the well-to-do community has a reputation for being conservative. But you wouldn't know it from the way the audience - made up almost exclusively of senior citizens - seized every opportunity to tear into President Bush and his proposal to allow young people to invest part of the money they contribute to the current system into private accounts.

The way these seniors see it, this isn't about demographics and the undeniable fact that, with every year that goes by, we have fewer workers supporting more retirees. This isn't about the fact that Americans are living longer, and so it only makes sense to push back the retirement age.

For this crowd, the whole issue of reforming Social Security comes down to trusting George Bush. For those who don't, it's tempting to buy the argument that the administration is manufacturing a crisis to gin up public support for a scheme that will make a fortune for ''Bush's friends on Wall Street.''

Judging from their questions and comments, that's what many in the Coronado audience believed. And they couldn't get past it. They insisted on making the issue political, when it's really generational.

That disappointed me. So did the fact that these seniors had convinced themselves that there was no ''crisis'' in Social Security because the best estimates are that benefits will continue to be paid out for the foreseeable future. They didn't seem to care a whit about the financial strain that future taxpayers will be put under to make that happen. This is the real crisis.

You know what else was disappointing? That many of the seniors were so openly contemptuous of the idea of letting poor and working people invest their own money in private retirement accounts. To listen to these seniors, the less well-off aren't smart enough to know what to invest where, and so need the government to provide them with a guaranteed benefit.

Putting aside the rank condescension, such comments were horribly naive. Given the demographic changes ahead - beginning with the retirement of 70 million baby boomers - don't expect the Social Security system to give out any guarantees or to honor them if it does.

That's something that older generations need to understand - and which younger generations figured out a long time ago.


TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: aslongasigetmine; elderly; genx; gimmie; greediestgeneration; greedygeezers; navarrette; rubennavarrette; screwthekids; socialsecurity
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To: CSM

I was just going by what you said.


81 posted on 05/25/2005 10:17:41 AM PDT by Goodgirlinred ( GoodGirlInRed Four More Years!!!!!)
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To: inquest

AMT


82 posted on 05/25/2005 10:19:01 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Goodgirlinred

Structered products or principle protected notes are becoming more popular, since they guarentee return of your with upside.


83 posted on 05/25/2005 10:19:22 AM PDT by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: Goodgirlinred
We are all happy for your mama. What you seem to be missing somehow is this ain't about your mama. It is about the YOUNGER kids. Your mama grew up and paid into a system that "expected" her to die at age 70, and not to have "medicare" as a part of the SS retirement package. Therefore, she is taking out MORE than was budgeted for her to put in. This pattern is continuing to accelerate.

Down here in the lower age brackets, we want to see your mama get everything promised to her, whether it was promised wisely or not. However, that is not the same as requiring younger folks to throw money into a politicians pocket so he can buy votes with that money and replace it with an IOU. Privately controlled accounts would force reductions in spending. Keeping the current system just means that while your mama gets everything promised, the generations after her get screwed. I would think your mama would not want that. Mine would not.
84 posted on 05/25/2005 10:20:19 AM PDT by chronic_loser
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To: fooman

I was actually helping bolster your argument about the futility of keeping the system afloat.....


85 posted on 05/25/2005 10:22:15 AM PDT by CSM ( If the government has taken your money, it has fulfilled its Social Security promises. (dufekin))
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To: Goodgirlinred
Your first sentences SHOULD read, "Well, my mother saved and pinched every penny. She put their money in CD's. She trusted her government and still does."

The first two are noble and praiseworthy. The last one is brain dead stupid, and is a malady of alot of oldsters, it seems. Fortunately, they won't be the ones to suffer for their misplaced trust.
86 posted on 05/25/2005 10:23:43 AM PDT by chronic_loser
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To: SAJ

Sending the money overseas had occurred to me, too. My only concern is "be careful where you go." What you don't want to do is put all the money in a country where they will do the same thing (confiscation) to finance their own Ponzi scheme (so don't put it in Europe). The other concern is to pick a country where they have some sort of sweetheart financial deal with the US whereby they grab the money of US citizens as a credit against overwhelming trade deficits. So forget Asia and most of South America.

I guess that leaves Mozambique. I hear the Indian Ocean coast there is lovely.

When it comes to being screwed by governments, I am pretty much counting on it.


87 posted on 05/25/2005 10:26:07 AM PDT by henkster (When democrats talk of "the rich," they are referring to anyone with a private sector job.)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
I'd be very curious to know how many people among the AARP crowd are actually opposed to that, or are even aware of the issues surrounding it.
88 posted on 05/25/2005 10:26:27 AM PDT by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: xrp

I was born at the tail end of the Baby Boomers... Can I stick with the Gen X and Y :)


89 posted on 05/25/2005 10:26:47 AM PDT by USAFJeeper
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To: inquest

1] Dithyramb: "A Greek choric hymn, originally in honour of Dionysus or Bacchus, vehement and wild in character


90 posted on 05/25/2005 10:27:25 AM PDT by chronic_loser
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To: chronic_loser

I am working on explaining that to her. If we get the word "stocks" out of it she is more comfortable. When I remind her that my husband died before ever being able to collect his, then she understands better. Anyway, please understand and I am all for it. I am probably the same age as your mama. 55. So, I will vote for whichever next president will go along with changing social security so you younger folks can invest your money if President Bush does not get it passed during his term in office.


91 posted on 05/25/2005 10:28:54 AM PDT by Goodgirlinred ( GoodGirlInRed Four More Years!!!!!)
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To: USAFJeeper
Can I stick with the Gen X and Y :)

Only if you're a dude.

92 posted on 05/25/2005 10:29:02 AM PDT by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: chronic_loser
Ah, that explains it. Thanks.

(would've been something to witness)

93 posted on 05/25/2005 10:29:53 AM PDT by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: fooman

I will have to talk to my broker.


94 posted on 05/25/2005 10:30:23 AM PDT by Goodgirlinred ( GoodGirlInRed Four More Years!!!!!)
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To: Dubya; Congressman Billybob

Nope.

He's writing from frustration at the stupidity, at the selfishness, and at the ignorance and bias OF the current seniors.

All these errors and prejudices, of course, are being exploited and reinforced BY the democrats and the media (but I repeat myself!) to prevent Bush from fixing the SS problem.


95 posted on 05/25/2005 10:30:28 AM PDT by Robert A Cook PE (-I can only contribute to FR monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS contributes to her campaign every day)
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To: ANGGAPO
I suspect that most folks do not understand that any investment in in the stock option is just that, an option. You don't have to invest if you don't want to. I have noticed that the press fails to mention that, or if they do it is given the old Demotwist.

Thanks to propaganda from the AARP, Democrat demagogues and the all-too-willing MSM. The so-called "Greatest Generation" turned quickly into the "Socialist Generation."

96 posted on 05/25/2005 10:34:58 AM PDT by Bernard Marx (Don't make the mistake of interpreting my Civility as Servility)
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To: chronic_loser
Well, actually, she does not really trust the government. She knows that they "borrowed" from the Social Security trust fund which they had no business doing. She is very angry about that. Right now Mama is disgusted with all politicians. I can't talk politics with her at all. And no, she is not becoming senile. She keeps up with everything. She checks her computer first thing in the morning. She is on Senator Frist's mailing list. LOL!
97 posted on 05/25/2005 10:35:53 AM PDT by Goodgirlinred ( GoodGirlInRed Four More Years!!!!!)
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To: thebaron512
AARP is just wrong on so many ideas.
I sure wish I could put some of my SS money into a private account. But the left doesn't want it because they would then lose control of that money.
As far as the stock market is concerned. My dad's aunt was a poor woman who was a cleaning woman. She didn't have a lot of money but took what she could to invest in the stock market.
When she died, this money was left to her nephew and nieces (she had no children)as their inheritance. If she just relied on SS, she would have had nothing to leave them, and the government would have been the only beneficiary of her estate.
98 posted on 05/25/2005 10:42:03 AM PDT by LauraJean (sometimes I win sometimes I donate to the equine benevolent society)
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To: Goodgirlinred

Good to hear. As long as she doesn't fall into the same category as described in the article, the category of obstructionism, then I have no issues.


99 posted on 05/25/2005 10:45:30 AM PDT by CSM ( If the government has taken your money, it has fulfilled its Social Security promises. (dufekin))
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To: qam1

"It's also about sentimentality. No other generation is as passionate - and therefore as protective - about Social Security as the World War II generation, those Americans now in their 70s and 80s. For that demographic, this debate is about preserving a program that served their generation well and which they hope will be around several decades from now to serve their grandchildren."


It's really about "we're used to the idea of getting hand-outs", 1st proffered by that god called FDR.

Greatest gen, my butt. 1st gen to start milking the system. As well as to teach the younger 1s it's all OK and normal and a RIGHT.


100 posted on 05/25/2005 10:46:49 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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