Outsourcing, Layoffs, And No Stock Options?

Web Pro News ^ | 2005-05-23 | David Utter

[jb6]

Thanks but no thanks, say students to the prospect of entering the computer field in college.

According to the Computer Research Association, new enrollments in computer and engineering programs have dropped for four straight years. Simple economics shows the reason: good-paying tech jobs were wiped out in the dot-com crash and haven't returned.

But USA Today observes that high-level jobs combining technology and business still exist in the US. The implication there says no candidates exist to fill those jobs.

Oddly enough, the article doesn't state how a new college engineering graduate will have access to these high-level jobs. Since they are "high-level," it seems likely firms will want experienced candidates for the positions.

How does one get experience in a field? Starting in a low-level job and gaining it. Who's hiring graduates for low-level tech jobs with the prospects of becoming qualified for high-level jobs? That's difficult to tell.

The market for technology jobs remains very tight. And more than 20,000 computer bachelor's degrees awarded to North American students in the 2003-04 school year, according to the same CRA study.

It's not difficult to fathom the logic of employers who claim there are no job candidates in the market, after tens of thousands of technology workers were laid off and 20,000 graduates entered the work force.

Firms like Microsoft have been complaining of a lack of H-1B visas for bringing skilled workers into the country. Imported workers reportedly cost less than American workers. The ongoing claims of a dearth of tech workers seem disingenuous. All those people who lost their jobs didn't suddenly leave the country.

To blame the educational system for the lack of future technology workers does a disservice to it, and ignores the reality of high school students and their families considering career opportunities.

More emphasis could be placed on science and technology in school, but it doesn't change a job market that is not hiring US workers. Parents don't want their talented offspring entering a field where their skill may not be in demand.

And who could blame them for redirecting a bright child's interest to medicine or law instead?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

The computer industry has ALWAYS been cyclical.

There have been periods of feast and famine since at least the seventies, when I got into it. There have been periods of mass layoffs, and periods when anybody who could peck at a keyboard could get a job as a programmer, and it's happened half a dozen times in the past thirty five years.

People who can't see more than two minutes in front of their noses are doomed to be hand-to-mouth peasants all their lives and live in a constant state of depression because they have no faith.

[Non-Sequitur]

bump

[redgolum]

If you plan right, you can get a tech job and earn that experience to get the "higher" engineering jobs.

Thing is, most companies have figured out that a foreign worker can and will work for less, so the incentive is to outsource.

[sportutegrl]

I am a little worried about the long term effects of this outsourcing. Entry level jobs in fields like architecture are being sent overseas, while new grads over here never start up the ladder. What will this country look like in 10 or 20 years?

[xrp]

What will this country look like in 10 or 20 years?

[AppyPappy]

Face it, some people just can't code. They got in during the dot com boom and got laid off trying to grab the brass ring of stock options. A programmer does give a rip about options; he wants toys. A stock option is worthless if you hate your job.

It doesn't help that the educational community hasn't realized the boom is over. They need to train up programmers, not run everyone off into engineering.

[Alberta's Child]

It's not just the computer industry. Many of the issues mentioned in this article affect all areas of engineering.

Ironically, these declining enrollments in U.S. engineering programs have some very good long-term implications for those who do enter these schools. I am a civil engineering graduate with more than ten years of experience, and I have benefitted greatly from a dearth of good engineers in my age group. I was fortunate enough to enter a civil engineering program at the same time many prospective civil engineers were choosing to enter computer-related fields.

From what I understand, a similar situation occurred back in the 1960s and 1970s when the strength of the aerospace industry drove a lot of prospective civil engineers into electrical and mechanical engineering instead.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

What will this country look like in 10 or 20 years?

Marin county already looks like that.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

Parents don't want their talented offspring entering a field where their skill may not be in demand.

I real predicament.

For the past couple of years the proponents of offshoring have gushed about all the great hot jobs for Americans this means. Nary a word about what those jobs are.

At last! Someone gives us a clue.

John Challenger of the Chicago outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas says, "Of the hot jobs, the most sustainable will be those where you can't be outsourced."

Oh, you might also narrow the list a bit by keeping in mind the millions and millions and millions of H1B, L-1, and legal and ILLEGAL immigrants here and millions and millions more on the way -- they'll be looking for those jobs that can't be outsourced, also.

Sigh.. at least it's a start.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

From what I understand, a similar situation occurred back in the 1960s and 1970s when the strength of the aerospace industry drove a lot of prospective civil engineers into electrical and mechanical engineering instead.

I was actually thinking of the aerospace depression while I was writing my post.

I remember a picture in Life Magazine in the '60s of a PhD engineer marking the price on cans of green beans in a grocery store.

And in the mid-70s I was working at a grocery store with a guy who had a PhD in Electrical Engineering.

Neither of those guys stayed in the grocery stores forever.

[thoughtomator]

...good-paying tech jobs were wiped out in the dot-com crash and haven't returned.

This isn't really true, but I don't mind that the fly-by-nighters who drove down salaries in the post-bubble era think so.

[GingisK]

...and it's happened half a dozen times in the past thirty five years...

I entered the workforce as a software engineer in 1972. There never has been a "dry spell" like the one that exists now.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

I entered the workforce as a software engineer in 1972. There never has been a "dry spell" like the one that exists now.

I moved between two good jobs last year.

I see no "dry spell."

[One Proud Dad]

The bust got rid of the "garage" programmers. When I had to help interview for new programmer positions a few years back I was amazed at how many people said they had years of experience, listed all these certifications and major projects they worked on and could not answer a simple 20 question test. Most if not all were VB losers. Some guy who was a car saleman and read VB for Dummies and lucked into a high paying dot com job where no results were achieved but lots of capital was spent.

Also I can say that college only taught me theory in Computer Sciences. The learning did not start until I got a job. College teaches you no, I repeat NO real world applications only how to think and process information, basic syntax, and find resouces.

[GingisK]

... aerospace depression...

The telephone systems boom, among other things, began about this time. I left Huntsville in 1975 and have had steady employment until recently. I could also "pick and choose" among the available jobs.

[Alberta's Child]

In many high-tech fields, a PhD. actually limits one's career options in a big way. Those folks you mentioned were stuck working in grocery stores because they were only capable of doing two things -- aeronautical engineering or stocking shelves.

Someone who knows 10% of 10 different areas of expertise will always have more career options than someone who knows 100% of one area.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Those folks you mentioned were stuck working in grocery stores because they were only capable of doing two things -- aeronautical engineering or stocking shelves.

Actually, the guy I worked with eventually got a job using his degree and did quite well, but there are good times and there are bad times, and neither one of them lasts forever.

[expatpat]

There have also ALWAYS claimed there eas gong to be a shortage of tech-skilled employees/engineers.

[dawn53]

Someone who knows 10% of 10 different areas of expertise will always have more career options than someone who knows 100% of one area.

---

Here's a really interesting thread from awhile ago.
Lots of Engineers chimed in.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1372915/posts

We have a 17 year old, about to get his AA, and decisions, decisions, decisions. At the time I read that thread we were hoping he'd lean toward engineering, that's why I saved the thread, it gave pros and cons.

He's made good grades in his Calc w/anal Geometry classes, but says he "hates" math. I guess you can do well in a subject but dislike it at the same time. So do you want to encourage a kid into an engineering program when they really don't like math?

Decisions, decisions, LOL!

He scored exceptionally well on the ACT, so he'll have a scholarship, doesn't seem to have a passion for anything in particular, but has great communication skills.

Husband sees H1B engineers brought in every month by his employer (and he works for a municipality.)

Hard to know. At this point he has enough calc to enter the MIS degree program, and the counselor told him he already has credits that will yield him a couple minors. Plus he's young, and a Masters will be attainable. So we're hoping the bachelors, Masters, plus internships and some certs in specifics might diversify his education enough to land him a job coming out of college.