Posted on 05/12/2005 12:52:03 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
HISD may alter math-science requirement
Students may cut high school load with early credits; experts fear plan is 'a step backward'
Houston ISD students could earn high school diplomas without taking a single math or science class after their sophomore year under a proposal that is drawing criticism from some national education experts.
Critics say the change will leave students unprepared for college and the workplace.
"I'm surprised they would be considering this move," said Anne Tweed, president of the 55,000-member National Science Teachers Association. "That's a step backward."
Superintendent Abe Saavedra wants to do away with a policy that mandates three years of math and science courses for all high school students. Instead, students who pass high school-level courses in the eighth grade would get credit toward a diploma. State law requires three math and science credits to graduate.
Saavedra's proposal, which is expected to win school board approval today, runs counter to a national trend of school systems requiring students to spend more time in math and science classes before they graduate. The decision is even more curious, some education experts said, given the fact that more than two-thirds of HISD's 2004 graduates who enrolled in local community colleges last fall were required to take remedial courses.
"That policy will result in more youngsters having to take remedial math when they go on for further study," said Gene Bottoms, senior vice president of the Southern Regional Education Board and director of the High Schools that Work program. "It will also mean more students will not be able to pass employer exams that have a math component."
Focusing less on TAKS Saavedra told school board trustees earlier this week that the three-year requirement is unnecessary. It was adopted in 2001, he said, because trustees wanted high school juniors taking math and science classes at the same time they take the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills exam, which students must pass to graduate.
The current policy is based more on improving test performance than on academic quality, Saavedra said. What matters, he said, is that students take the necessary courses. "We absolutely are not lowering the standard," Saavedra said.
Still, Saavedra acknowledged that having high school students take more math and science classes would better prepare them for college. "If we required four years of math, it would work toward reducing the remedial requirement," he said. "I'm not telling you I won't come back with that kind of recommendation (in the future)."
Without the change, 38 HISD seniors will miss out on graduation ceremonies this year, Saavedra said. HISD typically graduates about 8,000 students a year.
Most trustees, including board President Dianne Johnson, have said they support Saavedra's proposal.
"It's still the same three classes," she said.
That's not necessarily so, said Brett Moulding, curriculum director for the Utah State Office of Education and a former president of the Council of State Science Supervisors.
"In eighth grade, the level of sophistication of science instruction is very different from the level that can occur in high school," Moulding said. "The students' ability to understand that information in the context of more advanced concepts is limited."
HISD trustee Greg Meyers said he hasn't decided how he'll vote.
"My concern is to make sure we keep our high achievement levels in place and I definitely would not stand for any lowering of the standards," he said. "We need to focus on college readiness and if that means they need three years of math and science in high school, then we need to make sure we have that."
Georgia's DeKalb County Public Schools decided this year to require all eighth-graders to take Algebra I. High school students in that predominantly minority and low-income school system of 100,000 students near Atlanta must take math and science from their freshman through senior years.
"The colleges and universities are saying you shouldn't have students sitting out one year, much less two years," said Wanda Gilliard, a former HISD middle school math teacher who is now DeKalb County's executive director for curriculum and instruction. "We want them exposed to that rigor before they get into a college setting."
Rules vary across the state Graduation requirements vary in Texas. Dallas requires three years of science and math in high school. Cy-Fair requires three years of high school math, but allows students to earn science credit in middle school. Austin school officials are thinking of changing their policy that now allows students to graduate with just two years of math and science in high school.
The Houston school board meets at HISD headquarters, 3830 Richmond, at 3 p.m. today.
jason.spencer@chron.com
The lady: Dropped out of highschool at 16. IQ of around 90. She can barely write, can't spell, and has a limited vocabulary. She has spent her entire life raising her family and caring for disabled children and adults. She is a very hard worker who takes pride in every job she does.
Her husband: Highschool graduate. Average IQ. Served his country in Nam, then came back and learned a trade. After busting his butt for 8 years perfecting his craft, he started his own business. He's made 6 figures for several years in a row now.
They live in a very well-kept double wide modular, buy a new vehicle every 10 years, and invest quite a bit of their money in mutual funds.
They are not "book smart". They are simple, hard working Americans with solid values. They are adored by everyone who knows them. They are loving, valuable people.
Who can't do algebra and don't know a thing about physics or chemistry.
They do understand history, civics, investing, God, compassion, and family.
The liberals are usually the ones who think that *everyone* was created from the same mold. They forget that we are unique individuals who have different strengths and weaknesses. Conservatives understand that everyone was created equal, but different. There is no one formula for every person's life. That is why the only way to approach all aspects of life is with individual liberty and freedom.
We need to teach kids core values, then help them find and develop their talents to make them productive human beings. Productive doesn't always mean college graduate or Algebra Whiz. A basic understanding of math (solid multiplication, division, addition, subtraction, fractions) and comfort with geometry will get most folks by just fine.
I don't know how flippant or serious that remark is, but I suspect that thought has occurred to many driving this train.
In a lot of these "left vs. right-brained" tests that float around on the web, I frequently show up as, "balanced-brained." IMHO, it is my exposure to math and science that helped me develop the logic and analytical thinking skills that have led to and affirm my conservative views.
The fact that foreigners are coming in is one of the few things helping us. But protectionists in congress keep limiting even the number of them allowed in.
That is true for many jobs you don't really even need a grade 12 education. However by definition there are substantial numbers of young adult Americans with above average IQ.
We need those people to be educated to a high degree, to be the scientific and engineering base of the country. Well I should say we could do even better with them.. As what will happen is the ultra high value knowledge work and design will just be done in Asia or Europe.. Then they will export the capital equipment, and designs for our factories. Where our people can work.
You are right that not everyone is cut out to be a scientist however. The best is to find valuable things that each person is good at and interested in.
True. However you don't pander to the lowest common denominator, which is what public school does (has) to do. The knowledge bar has been lowering, and at the detriment of America.
Students could take more math and science if they choose, right? The smart kids will and the not-as-smart kids won't. What good does it do to force students who aren't capable to take classes they can't pass?
McDonald’s needs more workers?
Yes. This is the message we need to send to our kids. Most don't like math and science (They know it all, don't they?) so we shouldn't require them to strive or experiment - to learn. Next they can strip reading and history from the list. No wait. They need history, so they can revise it. And reading? Who wants to read anyway?
Intelligence varies in people - those who want to go on to college know they have to take the harder classes. Those who know they aren't college material can at least get a diploma and hopefully find a trade or some type of work which doesn't require a college degree. Forcing those who are unable to do the work to take tougher classes will lead to more dropouts, which has occurred already in many schools. Is that what we want?
"When schools get caught fudging the testing numbers"
Wasn't one school, I think in one of the northeast neighborhoods, caught cheating by altering the forms on the TAAS test?
Anyhow, why not eliminate math and science altogether? It just further pushes the oppressive rigid linear thinking that keeps the "students" from expressing themselves! For that matter, eliminate grammar as well. Just teach watered down multi-culti and how it's always America's fault and Bush's fault (/major sarcasm).
I think this is an excellent idea.....that is, if you are a Democrat.
As a matter of fact, they ought to get rid of all math, science, history and english classes and teach just enough extremely basic reading skills to enable them to place their "mark" on the correct side of the democratic ballot when they vote.
Why do you need these courses anyway? All you have to do is watch PBS, CBS, ABC and NBC and don't even have to write or read. They will tell you everything you need to know.
College bound kids already have different requirements than regular graduates.
And the college requirements are set by the college - not the high school.
There is a disconnect in the union teachers' contract understanding. If they would simply teach the curriculum that they are hired to teach, most problems would be solved. Of course, due to affirmative action hiring policies, some cannot do that. They can't read either.
I think we have people in the education system that are in a hurry to see other countries taking us over. I am going to college right now to get my Associates degree and I cannot believe how easy it is. I think the school must threaten the teachers or something, because they make it where you CANNOT fail. When it is time to take a test you can use all your notes, ask your neighbor, and take the test over and over until you get at least 95%. This is in my computer class. Last quarter in my Criminal Law class if too many people missed certain questions the instructor just threw that question out and gave us points for it anyway. BTW I am going to a college in North Houston. There are other things going on, but that is an example. I can tell you that most of the students in my class have no idea how to think. As soon as they see a problem that requires thought they complain. The instructors usually give in to them.
And colleges give entrance exams so they can identify those students who need remedial reading, writing and math. A huge number of entering freshman (with high high school marks) are routed into these classes.
Welcome to dimwitted Van de Putte's world.
I'm on a graduate committee in a college at a university. I have not reviewed a graduate application from a U.S. citizen this academic year.
The point of science education in the primary and secondary level is not to train scientists - it is to teach people how to think and reason about the natural world. Yes there are people who can do pretty well without a formal education - but most don't.
Believe me, I am well aware of the shortcomings of many high school teachers. My daughter basically had to teach herself geometry because her teacher wasn't able to. She also taught herself chemistry. My point is only that all students, no matter how qualified the teacher, aren't capable of doing some higher math and science. And many can't write a decent paragraph or spell. My question is - how do students who need remedial work get into college to begin with? Or is it just who can afford tuition?
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