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Captured Terrorists Vs. Prisoners of War - (Lee Ellis, WWII vet; retired CBS VP; straight talk)
CHRONWATCH.COM ^ | MAY 5, 2005 | LEE ELLIS

Posted on 05/05/2005 8:45:27 PM PDT by CHARLITE

In reading Letters to the Editor in many newspapers, I find that there are many people who try to compare the Terrorist war with WWII and want us to treat captured terrorists the same way we treated German POWs in the 40s.

As a WWII combat veteran, I can state that with all previous wars, we had national, uniformed nations fighting each other. Even with bombings, civilians had sufficient warnings so that they could escape to bomb shelters whether in London or Berlin. Prisoners of war were treated with the Geneva accords in mind.

Today none of this “gentlemen’s war” exists. The enemies wear civilian clothes and live among us. They plot to kill or maim, without any warning, innocent children, women and men here in the USA. They will explode these bombs, as they have already done in Israel and Iraq (and don’t forget 9/11), while civilians are shopping, working, in schools, seeking entertainment or even attending a funeral of a loved one. The terrorists are also hoping to detonate a radioactive bomb that may kill millions of people and make an area of the USA uninhabitable for perhaps hundreds of years.

Let us assume that a captured terrorist can tell us where a radioactive bomb is hidden in one of our cities before it can explode, killing every person in that area, making it unlivable for the next century. Should we only ask the captured terrorist where this bomb might be? Should we adhere to Geneva accords that do not apply to terrorists simply because we insist that we must be better than the terrorists? Or should we do whatever is necessary to save the lives of innocents who make their homes wherever the terrorists plan to attack?

Are we really better than the enemy if we put the life of one terrorist above the safety of thousands of our citizens just so we can feel righteous because we do not threaten, cajole, or even torture an attacker to keep a mushroom cloud from enveloping one of our cities?

I, too, would like to live with the gentility of the 30s and 40s as practiced then by most of society. Not only did we treat POWs with dignity, we also left our windows open, our front doors unlocked, our ignition keys in our cars out front, and we did not worry when our kids did not show up all day because they had gone fishing or hiking or were out bicycling. We knew they would be home safely in time for dinner.

Sorry, that world no longer exists. We all now lock everything, install alarm systems, and call the police if a child is missing for more than an hour. We have learned the hard way that our society has deteriorated.

The same is true of war. We are at the mercy of terrorists. We are no longer engaged in a war with an individual nation with a legitimate army. When the terrorists capture one of our civilians, they honor the Geneva Convention by beheading the man or woman on world TV! Our Wahabi enemies have a fanatic religious belief system. They respect only strength; they look at kindness or appeasement as a sign of weakness. If we capture a terrorist, and we do not obtain information that will save us from suicide or nuclear bombers, we will no longer be alive and many of our USA cities will be gray nuclear ash heaps. It is deadly ot to know the mental outlook of our attackers; it is likewise deadly to live in the past.

About the Writer: Lee Ellis is a retired journalist and a former vice president of both CBS and Gannet. He resides in Indio, California, where he write op-eds that appear in several local newspapers. Lee receives e-mail at indiolee@dc.rr.com.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: convention; detainees; deterrence; geneva; genevaconvention; genevaconventions; genevaprotocols; information; leeellis; methods; prisonersofwar; terror; treatment; wwii
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1 posted on 05/05/2005 8:45:29 PM PDT by CHARLITE
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To: CHARLITE

Amen to this


2 posted on 05/05/2005 8:51:57 PM PDT by No Longer Free State (Standing in the way of progress is not a party platform)
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To: No Longer Free State
I've just read a fabulous column in chronwatch.com by Bob Parks, wherein he discusses this very issue that my friend, Lee Ellis deals with.

Here is a quote from Bob Parks' CW article:

"Liberals were more than willing to forgive and forget what they would consider war crimes when John Kerry was the alleged perpetrator. Kerry’s own words of his actions were considered youthful indiscretions. Now these same people have the audacity to criticize the motives of people whose job it is to make sure all the Kennedys are safe and secure. It was one thing when observing Geneva Convention rules to extract information pertinent to a war zone. But as 9/11 illustrated, terrorists will kill civilians by the thousands if left to their own devices. Being nice and respectful of the human rights of animals who would see the United States and our allies reduced to a smoldering wasteland is naïve and dangerous.

I’m still waiting for the lengthy statement from Kennedy denouncing the terrorists and their penchant for torture and mass murder."

Link:http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=14371

3 posted on 05/05/2005 8:58:07 PM PDT by CHARLITE ("People are not old, until regrets take the place of their dreams." - John Barrymore)
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To: CHARLITE
If we were to Honor the wishes of the people whom desire us to treat these prisoners under the accords of the Geneva Convention. We should then have a hasty trial give them a cigarette and shoot them. As under the Accords of Geneva either Saboteur or Spy is not a recognized classification of a legal combatant.
4 posted on 05/05/2005 8:58:59 PM PDT by Bigfitz (The mind is like a parachute works best when open)
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To: CHARLITE; MeekOneGOP; Grampa Dave; BOBTHENAILER; devolve; potlatch; ntnychik; ALOHA RONNIE; ...
The Geneva Convention does not afford terrorists any special protection.

The ACLU exists to destroy America.

The senator from Massachusetts is himself a killer and ought not affect the interrogation procedure.

Captured al Qaeda such as the current number three should be housed in an isolated facility designed for extracting information.

George Orwell in 1984 had Big Brother's team placing a special cage over Winston Smith's face with a single door holding back the ravenous rat.

Perhaps a variation using a pig would be apt.

Mr. Tough Guy would suddenly become Luciano Pavrotti.

5 posted on 05/05/2005 9:06:18 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: CHARLITE
I do not believe that the Geneva conventions have been in the end beneficial to civilization. By making war less horrid, IMO the conventions make it more likely. Think of the hypocrisy. Captured soldiers must be treated humanely while at the same time civilians are being blasted out of existence.

IMO, war should be so horrid that no nation or group would easily decide to engage. If each side knew that no prisoners would be taken, and that, in the end, the losing side should be annihilated, then there might be far less interest in going to war.

Flame away, folks.

6 posted on 05/05/2005 9:07:04 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (Delenda est Liberalism!)
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To: PhilDragoo; CHARLITE
I realize this may be a little extreme.........

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

7 posted on 05/05/2005 9:25:26 PM PDT by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham

"It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it." --Robert E. Lee


8 posted on 05/05/2005 9:40:35 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: CHARLITE

Amen Brother! Amen!


9 posted on 05/05/2005 9:48:01 PM PDT by AZHua87 (Insurgent BloggerVet!)
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To: potlatch
Mucius was taken in the act, and whilst he was under examination, a pan of fire was brought to the king, who intended to sacrifice; Mucius thrust his right hand into the flame, and whilst it burnt stood looking at Porsenna with a steadfast and undaunted countenance; Porsenna at last in admiration dismissed him, and returned his sword. . . .

That is the classic; the reality is that, faced with the burning coals, today's jihadists will emulate the Three Tenors.

10 posted on 05/05/2005 9:50:45 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: PhilDragoo

He was therefor known as Scaevola ('left hand').

Where else could he hold that sword??


11 posted on 05/05/2005 9:55:53 PM PDT by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: potlatch
Lefty Scaevola made an impression when George Feldman told our class about him sometime between the last dinosaur and the sinking of Atlantis.

The jihadists can never measure up.

12 posted on 05/05/2005 10:11:02 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: PhilDragoo

LOL, Phil, you are too much!! I thought at first it was Greek tragedy, but it's Roman. I never studied that much.


13 posted on 05/05/2005 10:15:39 PM PDT by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: PhilDragoo
"Mr. Tough Guy would suddenly become Luciano Pavrotti."

I've noticed that you frequently post some really funny comments! This is hilarious!

Thanks!

Char :)

14 posted on 05/05/2005 10:37:06 PM PDT by CHARLITE (I have a fabulous harlequin Great Dane named "Lucy!" :))
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To: potlatch; PhilDragoo; MeekOneGOP; Happy2BMe; ntnychik; Smartass


15 posted on 05/05/2005 10:40:33 PM PDT by devolve (My WWII Tribute: http://pro.lookingat.us/WWII.html - more traffic than DU-Koz-LDot)
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To: PhilDragoo; Beth528; Billthedrill; HonestConservative; SMARTY; Ghost of Philip Marlowe; CyberAnt; ..
"The ACLU exists to destroy America."

Liberals' attitude concerning Bush's War on Terror


16 posted on 05/05/2005 10:43:34 PM PDT by CHARLITE (I have a fabulous harlequin Great Dane named "Lucy!" :))
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To: CHARLITE
In WK2, un-uniformed resistance = shot on capture.

If the left would like to apply these rules to these conflicts that is fine by me.
17 posted on 05/06/2005 1:26:01 AM PDT by PzGr43
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To: PhilDragoo; CHARLITE
This article is right on! Thanks for the post and ping. :)

I, too, would like to live with the gentility of the 30s and 40s as practiced then by most of society. Not only did we treat POWs with dignity, we also left our windows open, our front doors unlocked, our ignition keys in our cars out front, and we did not worry when our kids did not show up all day because they had gone fishing or hiking or were out bicycling. We knew they would be home safely in time for dinner.

Shoot, as a 50's - 60's child, I remember a lot of this. We lived in Fort Worth (Tx). When I came home from school Mom and Dad were both at work and we just walked into the house. The house was left unlocked all day, and Mr. and Mrs. White were right next door if we needed anything.


18 posted on 05/06/2005 1:50:47 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (There is only one GOOD 'RAT: one that has been voted OUT of POWER !! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: CHARLITE

This is an excellent article. Thanks, Lee, for your service in protecting our country and the free world from the Nazis. And thanks again for expressing the wisdom of experience.

Good tee shirt, Char. My head spins every time I see a car out here in Seattle with both "Free Tibet" and "No Iraq War" bumper stickers. Free Tibet, but not Iraq. The hypocrisy is maddening.


19 posted on 05/06/2005 8:22:47 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: devolve

OH OH devolve, you're falling in with the Lefty Scaevola crowd too, LOL.

That is a very unique graphic!


20 posted on 05/06/2005 8:25:20 PM PDT by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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